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Old April 15th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #1

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The Kensington Runestone


I think Richard Stanberry referred to this artefact some time ago. Anyway, it interested me but at the time I was a bit busy. I've had a little more time lately, so I took another look. The basics are that in 1898, a Minnesota farmer of Swedish descent, one Olof Ohman, whilst clearing land for ploughing, took out a tree stump and found the thing.


The stone is described as weighing about 90 kilos and about 30 x 16 x 6 inches (76 x 41 x 15 cm) in size. The inscription is as follows:-
Quote:
“8 göter ok 22 norrmen po ??o opdagelsefard fro vinland of vest. vi hade läger ved 2 skelar en dags rise norr fro deno sten. vi var ok fiske en dagh, äptir vi kom hem fan 10 man røde af blod og ded. AVM frälse af illu.


[side of stone]: här 10 mans ve havet at se äptir vore skip 14 dagh rise from deno öh. Ahr 1362”
This is normally (and correctly) translated as
Quote:
“8 Goths and 22 Norwegians on a? journey of exploration, from Vinland west. We had a camp with 2 shelters, one day's journey north from this stone. We were at fishing one day, after we came home found 10 men red of blood and dead. AVM (Ave Virgo Maria) rescue from evils.

[side of stone] Have 10 men by/at sea to look after our ships, 14 day journey from this island. Year 1362.”
However the reference to Goths has nothing to do with the peoples of Alaric. Goths in this case means men from Gotaland which was and is part of Sweden.


Many people claim the stone is a forgery, but they give no reasons for holding this belief, others hold that it's genuine, but they too give no reason for their belief. Most forgeries are made for a purpose (usually financial gain), but Ohman made nothing from his discovery, nor did he have the ability to carve the stone, even if he had known years before that he would have access to this piece of land at any time in the future. Nor is he known to have been fluent in 14th century Swedish.


Against that, is the fact that America, at the time was going through a phase what I'll call, for want of a better term, a “Viking Revival” this was somewhat analogous to the “Scottish Romanticism” of earlier in the century. None of which throws any light on the suggestion that this purportedly 14th century artefact displays elements of modern Swedish (which I am not competent to comment on, but we'll get back to that later).


There is a piossible historical framework which suggests that the stone could be genuine. In 1354, Paul Knutson was required by Magnus Eiriksson the current King of Sweden, to make a missionary voyage to Greenland and the “lands west”. The crew supplied for this voyage was mixed Swedes and Norwegians. They also took a priest along as the Greenlanders had reverted to paganism (so no tithes to either king or church). The survivors of this voyage returned to Sweden in 1364.

The greatest problem with the Kensington Runestone is that there are only two possibilities:-
a) Its' a forgery – if so, it has to rank with the best of the best
or
b) It's genuine – should this be the case, it would rewrite history – Columbus would have to be demoted (at the very least).



Now we'll be getting back to the bit where I have even less competence than usual (stop laughing at the back there Avon). In his “Vikings in America (Birlinn, 2009)”, Graeme Davis makes the point that had the stone been found in Sweden it would have immediately been accepted as genuine. He also says, and I quote:- “ Though I am a philologist specialising in Old English and Old Norse, I could not produce from scratch a forgery with language approaching the quality of the Runestone, and there are but a handful of people today who could attempt such work.”
So, Kensington Runestone. Genuine? Forged?
Opinions and reasons please....
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Old April 15th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #2

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chookie View Post
I think Richard Stanberry referred to this artefact some time ago. Anyway, it interested me but at the time I was a bit busy. I've had a little more time lately, so I took another look. The basics are that in 1898, a Minnesota farmer of Swedish descent, one Olof Ohman, whilst clearing land for ploughing, took out a tree stump and found the thing.


The stone is described as weighing about 90 kilos and about 30 x 16 x 6 inches (76 x 41 x 15 cm) in size. The inscription is as follows:-
This is normally (and correctly) translated as

However the reference to Goths has nothing to do with the peoples of Alaric. Goths in this case means men from Gotaland which was and is part of Sweden.


Many people claim the stone is a forgery, but they give no reasons for holding this belief, others hold that it's genuine, but they too give no reason for their belief. Most forgeries are made for a purpose (usually financial gain), but Ohman made nothing from his discovery, nor did he have the ability to carve the stone, even if he had known years before that he would have access to this piece of land at any time in the future. Nor is he known to have been fluent in 14th century Swedish.


Against that, is the fact that America, at the time was going through a phase what I'll call, for want of a better term, a “Viking Revival” this was somewhat analogous to the “Scottish Romanticism” of earlier in the century. None of which throws any light on the suggestion that this purportedly 14th century artefact displays elements of modern Swedish (which I am not competent to comment on, but we'll get back to that later).


There is a piossible historical framework which suggests that the stone could be genuine. In 1354, Paul Knutson was required by Magnus Eiriksson the current King of Sweden, to make a missionary voyage to Greenland and the “lands west”. The crew supplied for this voyage was mixed Swedes and Norwegians. They also took a priest along as the Greenlanders had reverted to paganism (so no tithes to either king or church). The survivors of this voyage returned to Sweden in 1364.

The greatest problem with the Kensington Runestone is that there are only two possibilities:-
a) Its' a forgery – if so, it has to rank with the best of the best
or
b) It's genuine – should this be the case, it would rewrite history – Columbus would have to be demoted (at the very least).



Now we'll be getting back to the bit where I have even less competence than usual (stop laughing at the back there Avon). In his “Vikings in America (Birlinn, 2009)”, Graeme Davis makes the point that had the stone been found in Sweden it would have immediately been accepted as genuine. He also says, and I quote:- “ Though I am a philologist specialising in Old English and Old Norse, I could not produce from scratch a forgery with language approaching the quality of the Runestone, and there are but a handful of people today who could attempt such work.”
So, Kensington Runestone. Genuine? Forged?
Opinions and reasons please....
I am inclined to believe the stone is genuine based primarily on the geochemical analysis which indicates that it is at least two-hundred and possibly 500 years old. However, 500 years is not 700 years so I have reservations. It seems to me that both sides have valid arguments.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/k/ke/kens..._runestone.htm

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/168635_prank12.html

My question regards the message on the stone itself. Was it erected as a memorial to the dead men? If so where are the bodies? Was it erected as a marker to indicate the farthest extent of their journey due to the massacre, and that they would be turning back? If so, why in that location, and why no direct reference to the success or failure or the mission? Why this stone, there?
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Old April 15th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #3

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


Quote:
“8 GEATS and 22 Norwegians on a? journey of exploration, from Vinland west. We had a camp with 2 shelters, one day's journey north from this stone. We were at fishing one day, after we came home found 10 men red of blood and dead. AVM (Ave Virgo Maria) rescue from evils.

[side of stone] Have 10 men by/at sea to look after our ships, 14 day journey from this island. Year 1362.”
I prefer Geats, but seeing as how the word Göter was used interchangably between the two, who knows.

If it is a forgery, someone went to a lot of trouble to place it in a location that was accesible by the Great Lakes, as well as mastering the Runes that some scholars are now confirming as a historical medieval usage. The rub is the time that it was found, a period of Swedish nationalism and Viking romantacism, found by a Swedish man.

http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/kens/kens.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=kensi...ed=0CCoQ5wIwCg
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Old April 16th, 2010, 01:24 PM   #4

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


I think I mis-represented the stone when used the word "forgery", I should have used "fake".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia View Post
My question regards the message on the stone itself. Was it erected as a memorial to the dead men? If so where are the bodies? Was it erected as a marker to indicate the farthest extent of their journey due to the massacre, and that they would be turning back? If so, why in that location, and why no direct reference to the success or failure or the mission? Why this stone, there?
That's a bit more than one question . It seems to be rather atypical in many ways but my geuss is that it was set up as a waymarker for those who would follow (a bit like a milestone really).

Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido View Post
The rub is the time that it was found, a period of Swedish nationalism and Viking romantacism, found by a Swedish man.
True, and that would cause speculation and outright disbelief.

For myself, though I'm not entirely convinced, I think it's genuine, based on the geochemical analysis mentioned by Patricia and the sheer implausibility of the scenario needed for it to be fake...
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Old April 16th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #5

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


I'm on the fence, but I really want to believe it. Now the Oklahoma findings seem a little more far-fetched to me.
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Old April 16th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #6
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Re: The Kensington Runestone


Well, I've read all of two books about the Vikings: "A History of the Vikings", by Gwyn Jones, 1984; and "The Oxford Illustrated History of the Vikings", by Peter Sawyer, 1997. Neither authority lent any credence to stories of penetration of the Vikings into North America farther than temporary stay at L'anse aux Meadows, in Newfoundland, which place I unfortunately missed due to ferry schedules and constraints of $$$, a couple of years ago. I used to think about carving some runes on a slab of sandstone to leave in a sinkhole in the Missouri Ozarks, in order to excite the local gentry (fortunately, my perversities seldom translate into action).... ;>)
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Old April 19th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #7

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


I was watching a documentary today that spoke of an interesting fact about the runestone, that of a hooked X that is displayed on the stone, as well as many other locales, including Rosslyn Chapel.

left is Kennsington stone, right is Rosslyn.
Click the image to open in full size.

Rosslyn Chapel was built by William Sinclair, the grandson of Henry I Sinclair, a purported Templar and explorer of "Vinland" in 1398. This would only be accurate if the Zeno letters and maps are correct and truthful.


A copy of the mapstone from Maine, note the hooked X again in the lower right hand:
Click the image to open in full size.


The coded sigla of Christopher Columbus, did he have access to the Zeno maps due to some affiliation? Hooked X on the bottom left.
Click the image to open in full size.

The Narragansett Rune Stone

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
Found in the cove/ bay of Narraganssett, Rhode Island, in a location that 500 years ago, was not inundated with water. Again, the hooked X on the bottom left.


This may all sound speculative, but there is something going on, and with a little more searching, it seems that the hooked X as a runestone is rare indeed and found only recently in Europe. This fact may lend to it being genuine, or at the very least, research worthy.

Last edited by okamido; April 19th, 2010 at 04:40 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #8

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


In 1998, Mark Finnan discovered the resemblance between a Templar battle flag, and the Grand Council flag of the Micmac. I don't know the origin,(how long it's been in use, etc.), but they are mirror images.
Click the image to open in full size.

I can't find another corroboration of the Templar Fleet banner, maybe someone else can find it, or discredit.

Chapter 7, page 84:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KdM...=%2084&f=false
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Old April 19th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #9
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Re: The Kensington Runestone


Olof such a crafty man he was, smuggling in that giant boulder all the way from Norway to trick the Government and the Academia...


http://www.robertsewell.ca/madoc.html

Let's pretend its all true and there were blue eyed and blond haired natives.
Our Frontiersmen, most of them single as indicated in literature at the time, would have shot those "Pagans" and keep the young women and children for their own. If anyone asked questions, just tell em' the kid and the gal hit their heads on some rocks and been speaking Welsh ("nonsense") for the past day.

Then of course the woman and children can be persuaded that their memories were "imprints" from the Devil.

There you have a scenario in which all those Vikings are decimated and assimilated into the frontier population and we emerge out of it none the wiser.

But... Perhaps... The Cherokee Grandmother was really a blond pigtail American Viking? Oh yes it is all beginning to make sense... Certainty would explain all those blond haired and blue eyed folks at the Cherokee Festivals in America.


No doubt the Government is alarmed that I figured out their conspiracy and the FBI and CIS is about to knock down my door, shove me into a black helicopter and I'll disappear without a trace
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Old April 20th, 2010, 11:40 AM   #10

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Re: The Kensington Runestone


I recently came across a report that Columbus spent the winter of 1477-78 in Iceland...
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