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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #51

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Off the top of my head I know of no extant evidence for obelisks until the Middle Kingdom. The temple at Heliopolis had the ben-ben stone which is probably the origin of later obelisks.

Stepped away for a moment to find this (sorry for the Wiki attribution, but it was convenient):
  • The earliest temple obelisk still in its original position is the 68-foot (20.7 m) 120-metric-ton (130-short-ton)[5] red granite Obelisk of Senusret I of the XIIth Dynasty at Al-Matariyyah in modern Heliopolis.[6]

Source

The closest one really comes in the Old Kingdom is the ben-bens on the solar temples of Dynasty 5. I don't think any have survived but it's reasonably certain they were there: something like this.

By the way, this was a good idea for a thread.Hats off to John B.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #52

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It most certainly does. If you don't mind, try to find some pictures of these Old Kingdom statues of Min to post, as I am not familiar with them.
Now there's a challenge. I just tried and failed, which is what I expected. This deity dates back at least to late predynstic but I can't imagine there are many statues left of him from the Old Kingdom. I'm pretty sure Toby Wilkinson has some good information on this in his excellent book Early Dynastic Egypt.

Tell you what. If you're thinking about heading to Egypt to look for Houdin's chambers, stop by Akhmim and spend awhile kicking around in the sand in areas of Old Kingdom use. You may not find an intact Min, but you might unearth a...um....certain well-endowed appendage.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #53
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Now there's a challenge. I just tried and failed, which is what I expected. This deity dates back at least to late predynstic but I can't imagine there are many statues left of him from the Old Kingdom. I'm pretty sure Toby Wilkinson has some good information on this in his excellent book Early Dynastic Egypt.

Tell you what. If you're thinking about heading to Egypt to look for Houdin's chambers, stop by Akhmim and spend awhile kicking around in the sand in areas of Old Kingdom use. You may not find an intact Min, but you might unearth a...um....certain well-endowed appendage.
The phallus of Osiris I presume. I thought the Oxrynchus fish devoured it if I'm not mistaken. Yes, Wilkinson's book is an excellent source for the Early Dynastic Period. The only comprehensive history focusing exclusively on Egypt's Archaic Age as far as I am aware.

Houdin's chambers? I am glad we can finally partake in a sober discussion of these things. There is much work that still needs to be done at Giza. I am eagerly anticipating the Project's findings. As we all are.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:28 PM   #54

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https://books.google.com/books?id=Vj...ynasty&f=false

As usual the finds are in the literature but finding pictures is a pain.
Ooo, I have that book in my library. Excellent idea, and I didn't think of it. That book is as dry as dirt and not the least interesting to read like a narrative, but it's a fantastic reference guide.

The Egyptologist I studied under to learn hieroglyphs recommended this book to all of us students. I took him seriously and have never regretted it.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #55

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The phallus of Osiris I presume. I thought the Oxrynchus fish devoured it if I'm not mistaken. Yes, Wilkinson's book is an excellent source for the Early Dynastic Period. The only comprehensive history focusing exclusively on Egypt's Archaic Age as far as I am aware.

Houdin's chambers? I am glad we can finally partake in a sober discussion of these things. There is much work that still needs to be done at Giza. I am eagerly anticipating the Project's findings. As we all are.
If you like Early Dynastic Egypt, another you might like is David Wengrow's book on the same topic:

The Archaeology of Early Egypt

For whatever reason I prefer Wilkinson's book and just find it more readable, but Wengrow's is more professional. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner because it assumes you already have some foundation in Egyptology, so you should have no problem with it. It's a lot more detailed than Wilkinson's book.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #56
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If you like Early Dynastic Egypt, another you might like is David Wengrow's book on the same topic:

The Archaeology of Early Egypt

For whatever reason I prefer Wilkinson's book and just find it more readable, but Wengrow's is more professional. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner because it assumes you already have some foundation in Egyptology, so you should have no problem with it. It's a lot more detailed than Wilkinson's book.
Excellent! Thank you for the recommendation. I will certainly make the purpose, as I always enjoy studying the origins of the Pharaonic State. I would especially like to see more information about the reunification under Khasekhemy, as there were a lot of complex dynastic and political events transpiring during his reign that we are not yet knowledgeable of.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #57

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Excellent! Thank you for the recommendation. I will certainly make the purpose, as I always enjoy studying the origins of the Pharaonic State. I would especially like to see more information about the reunification under Khasekhemy, as there were a lot of complex dynastic and political events transpiring during his reign that we are not yet knowledgeable of.
LOL Khasekhemwy is my favorite king from the Early Dynastic Period.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 07:59 PM   #58
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LOL Khasekhemwy is my favorite king from the Early Dynastic Period.
Mine too. Personally, I believe his reunification of Egypt provided the basis for much of the Osirian mythology. Especially the struggle between Horus and Set. I posted my thoughts on this in some detail on the other thread.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 02:04 AM   #59

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Well, nswt-bity, which is traditionally and not inaccurately, translated as King of Upper and Lower Egypt in all actuality was a adjectival construction known as a "nisbe." The title literally meant "He to whom belongs the Sedge and the Bee." The Sedge and the Bee were the symbols of Upper and Lower Egypt respectively, and the title nswt-bity emphasized the king's rule and ownership of the entire realm.
Yes, I tend to prefer the translation "Lord of the Sedge and the Bee", but it's just a personal preference. Obviously, translating it for present readers it's better to make reference to "the Two Lands" or to "Upper and Lower Egypt" [which actually was "KmT" in not a few cases]. The literal translation requires the further explanation of the two symbols [the Sedge and the Bee].

A curiosity connected to the “great names” of the Kings [also the word “Pharaoh” hasn’t been connected to the Royal individual along the entire history of Egypt, before of the New Kingdom it was more connected with the office and before with the Palace] is that they changed.

About this, I would note that Akhenaten [previously Amenhotep] changed almost all his great names, but not the prenomen, just the “Lord of the Sedge and the Bee” name.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 08:04 AM   #60

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Well if there was a god named Min what about his twin brother Max?

Sorry, sorry, I couldn't resist.
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