Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 28th, 2017, 04:51 AM   #11

Salaminia's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Bluff
Posts: 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarmagnus View Post
And in my opinion the Romans would have crushed either Phillip.
How unsurprising.

Before this degenerates into yet another Rome better than Macedonia thread, there was no Rome of 198 during the pomp of Philip II. Bears keeping in mind and demonstrates just how foolish comparing different times centuries apart is. It also bears keeping in mind that Rome was flat out simply surviving the attentions of a rather minor Hellenistic player in an Epeirote called Pyrrhos in the 270s.
Salaminia is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 28th, 2017, 05:07 AM   #12

Duke Valentino's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Australia
Posts: 1,591
Blog Entries: 1

Wasn't planning on it, hence why I didn't respond.
Duke Valentino is online now  
Old December 28th, 2017, 08:20 AM   #13

Publius's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2014
From: Why do you want to know?
Posts: 517
Blog Entries: 1

I highly doubt that Philip II could have beaten the Romans by 197 BC. They had an army that was battle-hardened from the Hannibalic War, and a plethora of talented commanders to choose from, even if Flamininus failed.

On topic, it's pretty hard to argue against Philip II here.
Publius is offline  
Old December 28th, 2017, 11:11 AM   #14
Archivist
 
Joined: May 2015
From: villa of Lucullus
Posts: 249
difference in strength


I think Philip V may deserve criticism for how he lost to the Romans but I think ultimately given the differences in numbers it would be very hard for Macedonia to win regardless of how brilliant a general he was. The Romans could simply withstand much higher losses than could Macedonia. If you wanted a fair fight you would probably need a united Greece plus the Seleucids and Ptolemies to have a real chance of winning.
LicinusYongzheng704 is offline  
Old December 28th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #15

Duke Valentino's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Australia
Posts: 1,591
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
I highly doubt that Philip II could have beaten the Romans by 197 BC. They had an army that was battle-hardened from the Hannibalic War, and a plethora of talented commanders to choose from, even if Flamininus failed.

On topic, it's pretty hard to argue against Philip II here.
I don't know, Philip was a pretty capable and cunning diplomat. He would probably be a lot capable of meeting the Romans on his own turns, garnering alliances, juggling the affairs of state etc. to a greater capacity than Philip V. Also, the two major battles with the Macedonians against the Romans saw the Macedonians not performing at their best at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LicinusYongzheng704 View Post
I think Philip V may deserve criticism for how he lost to the Romans but I think ultimately given the differences in numbers it would be very hard for Macedonia to win regardless of how brilliant a general he was. The Romans could simply withstand much higher losses than could Macedonia. If you wanted a fair fight you would probably need a united Greece plus the Seleucids and Ptolemies to have a real chance of winning.
Agreed.
Duke Valentino is online now  
Old December 28th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #16

Salaminia's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Bluff
Posts: 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Valentino View Post
I don't know, Philip was a pretty capable and cunning diplomat. He would probably be a lot capable of meeting the Romans on his own turns, garnering alliances, juggling the affairs of state etc. to a greater capacity than Philip V.
Again, comparing the two is terribly fraught. The Macedonian of Philip V was not the Macedonia of Philip II. I don't doubt, though, that Philip II would not have allowed himself to engage at Kynoskephalai.

Last edited by Salaminia; December 28th, 2017 at 04:12 PM.
Salaminia is offline  
Old December 28th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #17

Duke Valentino's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Australia
Posts: 1,591
Blog Entries: 1

Are you saying he would or would not ?
Duke Valentino is online now  
Old December 28th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #18

Salaminia's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Bluff
Posts: 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Valentino View Post
Are you saying he would or would not ?
Not. Amended.
Salaminia is offline  
Old December 28th, 2017, 04:44 PM   #19

Duke Valentino's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Australia
Posts: 1,591
Blog Entries: 1

Agreed, the attack by Philip V was reckless and unlike his reputation as a good general.
Duke Valentino is online now  
Old December 28th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #20

Salaminia's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Bluff
Posts: 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Valentino View Post
Agreed, the attack by Philip V was reckless and unlike his reputation as a good general.
In reality, he boxed himself in. He wanted to fight on the plain north of Pharsalos where his right was protected by the Enipeas River and his left the Karadagh Range. He ended up fighting on the latter. Wiser heads might have de-escalated the encounter battle which developed into the battle itself. He wanted to control those heights though because he would march through the pass. A difficult position to be in. Had he not had to resupply, he'd have made his chosen ground and this is the main mistake: logistics.
Salaminia is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

Tags
philip



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Philip V of Macedon markdienekes Ancient History 10 December 21st, 2016 11:25 PM
Philip the Great? Lee-Sensei Speculative History 11 April 10th, 2016 03:58 PM
Philip Sheridan Viperlord American History 100 April 29th, 2013 11:01 AM
King Philip's War tjadams American History 67 August 25th, 2012 09:10 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.