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Old December 29th, 2017, 08:25 AM   #1

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Did ancient crowns/tiaras had diamonds or beads?


I am trying to reconstruct the Artaxiad crown of Tigranes II for a docu.
Maybe someone can help me did hes tiara had diamonds or beads?
Since it was hard to polish diamonds with contemporary tools. Every picture depicts something different.

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Old December 29th, 2017, 08:26 AM   #2

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You might go with felt with gold plaques and gold sequins or rosettes.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 04:29 PM   #3
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The First question is actually - can he get diamonds? Most of the diamonds in Europe have their origins in India (i.e. Hope Diamond).

The second question is can a diamond can be mounted or cut with the items of the period. Most diamonds are cut with very simple tools - an iron chisel can split a diamond if you hit it in the right place, but you will need to study the diamond for months before trying the split. More info here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_cutting
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Old December 29th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #4
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The most common meaning of the English word tiara is a sort of jeweled head piece worn by wealthy modern occidental women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiara

https://www.google.com/search?newwin....0.nPNH-GiV4QI

It seems to be a common misconception that a tiara signifies the rank of princess. Princess coronets signify the rank of princess.

The papal crown is also called a tiara.

In my opinion it is misleading to use the word "tiara" to refer to a crown.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 07:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
The First question is actually - can he get diamonds? Most of the diamonds in Europe have their origins in India (i.e. Hope Diamond).

The second question is can a diamond can be mounted or cut with the items of the period. Most diamonds are cut with very simple tools - an iron chisel can split a diamond if you hit it in the right place, but you will need to study the diamond for months before trying the split. More info here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_cutting
As I remember, Pliny the Elder mentioned diamonds:https://www.gemporia.com/en-us/learn...20the%20elder/

Pliny the Elder, The Natural History, BOOK XXXVII. THE NATURAL HISTORY OF PRECIOUS STONES., CHAP. 15. (4.)?ADAMAS: SIX VARIETIES OF IT. TWO REMEDIES.

In ancient times diamond sand other gems were not cut but were used in their natural forms. And diamonds were hardly the only gems that were used.

These images of (mostly) medieval crowns show gems of many types and colors. And most of them are used in their natural shapes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hist...w=1920&bih=949
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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:49 AM   #6

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The source says "first guild of diamond cutters and polishers (diamantaire) was formed in 1375 in Nuremberg, Germany" But the Artaxiad crown i mention is in the year 9555bc, i dont know if royal crowns had diamonds in that time?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
The First question is actually - can he get diamonds? Most of the diamonds in Europe have their origins in India (i.e. Hope Diamond).

The second question is can a diamond can be mounted or cut with the items of the period. Most diamonds are cut with very simple tools - an iron chisel can split a diamond if you hit it in the right place, but you will need to study the diamond for months before trying the split. More info here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_cutting
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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:56 AM   #7

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The second source says "We may also add, from the same authority, that the method of polishing diamonds was first discovered in 1456, by Louis Berquen, a citizen of Bruges, previous to which time the diamond was only known in its native uncut state."

And the Romans probably used it but also around the first century AD, and not before that. They probabaly decorated crowns back then with pearls or beads??



This is what i have made so far of the Artaxiad crown:

Click the image to open in full size.

I need to know how these crowns looked back then and what kind of decoration it had.

Antiochus I Theos of Commagene also depicts exactly the same Armenian crown with the Artaxiad coat of arms displaying his Armenian lineage, as did Tigranes the Great.

Click the image to open in full size.

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The million dollar question is what are those dots on hes crown?

Last edited by Artaxata; December 30th, 2017 at 11:33 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:05 PM   #8
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Oldest crowns which are physically extant:
Iron Crown, preserved by people, dates as early as 4th...5th century AD
From excavations: Silla, Kaya and Pekche crowns beginning from 5th century AD; Tillya Tepe in Bactria 1st century BC

Any others?
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Old December 30th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #9

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[QUOTE=Artaxata;2877932]The second source says "We may also add, from the same authority, that the method of polishing diamonds was first discovered in 1456, by Louis Berquen, a citizen of Bruges, previous to which time the diamond was only known in its native uncut state."

And the Romans probably used it but also around the first century AD, and not before that. They probabaly decorated crowns back then with pearls or beads??



This is what i have made so far of the Artaxiad crown:

Click the image to open in full size.

I need to know how these crowns looked back then and what kind of decoration it had.

Antiochus I Theos of Commagene also depicts exactly the same Armenian crown with the Artaxiad coat of arms displaying his Armenian lineage, as did Tigranes the Great.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The million dollar question is what are those dots on hes crown?[/Qdis]

I'd very strongly suspect gold sheet disks.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 01:26 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Feinman View Post

I'd very strongly suspect gold sheet disks.
I really think thats possible, but the disks must be really small then. I wonder if that was common to similar crowns back then, to use golden disks as crown decoration. Cause they look like pearls or beads or maybe diamonds.

Last edited by Artaxata; December 30th, 2017 at 01:35 PM.
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