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April 29th, 2010, 11:21 AM
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#1 | | Man in the Box ¤ Blog of the Year ¤
Joined: Oct 2009 From: Baltimorean-in-exile Posts: 16,650 | The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
One of Rome's major military philosophies was to learn from the enemy. This is graphically illustrated by a look into the origins of the most basic items in a Roman legionary's equipment: Gladius-The sword utilized by Roman infantry was adopted from the Celtiberians in the late 3rd Century BC. This came to be the most deadly weapon in the Roman arsenal, and in various forms remained in use up to the 5th Century AD. Scutum-Technically speaking, "scutum" merely implies a shield, not necessarily the concave rectangular shield iconic of 1st/2nd Century legionaries. Nonetheless, the rectangular shield was known by this name, and was in use by the Romans as early as the 5th Century BC. It was apparently invented by the Samnites; its use subseqently being copied by the Romans when they abandoned the phalanx for the manipular legionary style of fighting. Pilum-The heavy, lead-weighted javelin of Republican and early Imperial days was originally also a Samnite weapon. Pugio- The fat triangular dagger known as the "pugio" was a staple self defense weapon in the Roman world at least as late as the 3rd Century AD. Like the gladius, this weapon was first used by Celtic tribes residing in Spain. It came to be used by the Romans during the Second Punic War, and remained a part of legionary equipment and identity for at least four centuries afterwards. Spatha-The "spatha" was basically an elongated gladius, used by cavalry, though from the 2nd Century onwards it was also used by infantry. Though its design was crucially the same as the gladius, the concept of the spatha was probably inspired by encounters with Celtic and Germanic cavalry equipped with longswords. Helmets-All known styles of Roman helmet were based on those used by other peoples. The earliest Roman helmets were based on Samnite or Greek models. By the 1st Century BC, Celtic and Thracian helmet styles had become a standard-issue item in the ranks of the legions. This remained the case until the 3rd Century, when a style of Sarmatian helmet, known modernly as a "spangenhelm", came to be widely used. The spangenhelm was used by Roman, German, Sarmatian, and Persian soldiers throughout late Antiquity. Romans were still using helmets of "Attic" and "Thracian" style as late as the 7th Century. Chainmail-Chainmail was invented by the Gauls. Over the course of the last three centuries before Christ, it spread throughout Western Europe, being used by Romans, Germans, and Spaniards. Thanks to the Romans, chainmail was also widespread in the East by the 3rd Century. Chainmail was the most common style of armor in the Imperial period of Roman history. The "lorica segmentata", as modern sources call it, does appear to have been a Roman invention. Scalemail-Scalemail was used by Rome's Parthian and Sarmatian foes in the 1st Century BC. By the 2nd Century AD, it had become common amongst Roman cavalry, and to a lesser extent infantry, and was in use for the rest of Antiquity.
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April 29th, 2010, 11:27 AM
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#2 | | Backworldsman
Joined: Jun 2009 From: Glorious England Posts: 6,357 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
What about the early Republican-era hoplite phalanx? They didn't invent that, either!
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April 29th, 2010, 11:32 AM
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#3 | | Man in the Box ¤ Blog of the Year ¤
Joined: Oct 2009 From: Baltimorean-in-exile Posts: 16,650 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargon of Akkad What about the early Republican-era hoplite phalanx? They didn't invent that, either! | They actually didn't even invent the legionary style of fighting, either. That honor goes to the Samnites, who organized their javelin-armed infantry into "cohorts" and "maniples" that were more manueverable in difficult terrain. Rome's Samnite Wars (not the Gallic campaigns in the early 4th Century BC, as some have stated) put the stiff hoplite phalanx at a great disadvantage. Which led to the adoption of Samnite weapons and tactics - which centuries later, would still be in use from Scotland to Israel | | |
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April 29th, 2010, 11:52 AM
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#4 | | The Adequate Mostly Harmless
Joined: Dec 2009 From: Tennessee Posts: 7,829 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
Some geniune Roman military inventions:
The Corvus - a spike on the prow of ships to allow for boarding the enemy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(weapon)
Assuming that Byzantine = Roman !
Greek Fire
Grenades | | |
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April 29th, 2010, 12:38 PM
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#5 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2010 From: Loch na Seilg, Alba Posts: 2,587 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
So the Romans copied their inventions from other 'barbarians' who lacked any civilised techniques? Well there's a surprise! | | |
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April 29th, 2010, 09:36 PM
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#6 | | Big Cheese of the Seven Seas
Joined: Apr 2010 From: Tennessee Posts: 591 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
Saladin you are the **** when it comes to making Ancient era threads
You're not dogging Rome here are you though? Adopting the best ideas/weapons/armor/tactics of other peoples you encounter is a mark of a wise civilization. Adaptation for the win!
I also didn't know the Gauls invented chainmail. That's interesting.
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April 30th, 2010, 04:50 AM
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#7 | | Man in the Box ¤ Blog of the Year ¤
Joined: Oct 2009 From: Baltimorean-in-exile Posts: 16,650 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaius Saladin you are the **** when it comes to making Ancient era threads
You're not dogging Rome here are you though? Adopting the best ideas/weapons/armor/tactics of other peoples you encounter is a mark of a wise civilization. Adaptation for the win!
I also didn't know the Gauls invented chainmail. That's interesting. |
And indeed, I'm not dogging Rome - I'm pointing out, as you just did, that copying good ideas from other cultures is the mark of a wise civilization.
Ask anyone on Historum, Salah ad-Din is definitely a Caesarian Romanophile | | |
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April 30th, 2010, 09:43 AM
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#8 | | Citizen
Joined: Apr 2010 From: New York Posts: 12 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment Quote:
Originally Posted by Salah ad-Din They actually didn't even invent the legionary style of fighting, either. That honor goes to the Samnites, who organized their javelin-armed infantry into "cohorts" and "maniples" that were more manueverable in difficult terrain. Rome's Samnite Wars (not the Gallic campaigns in the early 4th Century BC, as some have stated) put the stiff hoplite phalanx at a great disadvantage. Which led to the adoption of Samnite weapons and tactics - which centuries later, would still be in use from Scotland to Israel  | Thats really interesting I dident know the Samnites invented the legionary style of fighting. Ive also never heard the idea it was the Samnite Wars that made Rome abandon the phalanx formation, as opposed to the Battle of Allia fought against the Alpine Gauls. But considering the Battle of Allia took place in 390 BC. but the Romans used phalanx formations in the beginning of the Samnite Wars which started in 343 BC. it must have been the Samnite Wars that caused the change.
Did the Romans at least invent the testudo formation?
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April 30th, 2010, 11:09 AM
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#9 | | Man in the Box ¤ Blog of the Year ¤
Joined: Oct 2009 From: Baltimorean-in-exile Posts: 16,650 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrodvitnir9 Did the Romans at least invent the testudo formation? | Seeing as the rectangular scutum was initially a Samnite convention, I would doubt it  But on the other hand, the Romans, unlike the Samnites, faced a number of enemies that were strong in archery, and they also fought in some pretty terrible sieges, so it is possible that such a dense formation was never necessary for the Samnites.
As for the Gallic Wars - you make a good point in stating that the phalanx was still in use half a century after Brennus' alleged sack of Rome. This alone is proof that encounters with the Gauls - however unnerving they were for the early Romans - did not cause them to majorly change their tactical doctrines.
Another reason is that the Gauls were a much less sophisticated enemy than the Samnites. The Gauls were still fighting in "heroic style" and charging into battle in a pysched-up mob - a far cry from the ordered cohorts of the Samnites. A well-led and well-trained phalanx will hold up against a barbarian onslaught much better than a battle with "civilized" troops using legionary tactics. The Roman failure at Allia was due less to the tactics and weapons of either side; more to the low morale and likely poor leadership of the Romans.
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April 30th, 2010, 01:28 PM
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#10 | | Megas Domestikos
Joined: Dec 2009 From: Canada Posts: 2,477 | Re: The Non-Roman origins of Roman military equipment
Just out of curiosity, do you have a copy of Stephenson's 'Roman0-Byzantine Infantry Equipment', Salah?
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