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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:44 AM   #21

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One can actually claim that racism was codified and institutionalized first in ancient India. Elaborate books were written on how to practice it. What's more, they even made it a core part of their religion, Hinduism. It has withstood the rigors of time, and continue to play an important role (negative nevertheless) in Indian society.
Well, originally, yes. But nowadays, it's almost impossible to distinguish castes from phenotype, now it's codified by descent and modern genomics has confirmed that the higher the caste you belong, more Aryan ancestry you have in your DNA.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:46 AM   #22
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That's completely false. Caste system is mostly based by descent, not by skin colour or phenotype. A Brahmin can very well be of darker complexion than some lower caste people. Originally the Caste system was strictly based on phenotype - since Aryan migrants were presumably lighter skinned than the earlier inhabitants of the Indus Valley - but admixture was so widespread, than it makes somewhat very difficult nowadays to completely castes mainly basing on phenotype alone.
So a system that was based, and largely still based on "colour, phenotype and descent" is only a "certain extent" racist?

Wow, I guess we do need to focus on the racist white people and just ignore everyone else. Because privilege!

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I live in China by the way. The color bias that exist in East Asia is more based on class rather than descent or phenotype. And that colour bias is not in anyway as serious as the race problem that exist in America or South Africa. It's not really how it works here.
Who wrote this?

"sort of racial hierarchy based on colour, phenotype and descent"

You did. Does China and other East Asian countries presently and historically categorize people by their skin color, phenotype, and descent? Absolutely they did and still do.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:46 AM   #23

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Well you discarded India as racist because it was complex. I was just wondering who else in your opinion gets a pass, so we can instead focus on racism in the Americas.
No, I didn't say that. I actually mentioned that India is race-based society to a certain extent. And there's a reason of why I said that.

And I mentioned South Africa and Australia, which as I remember, are not situated in the American continent.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:47 AM   #24
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Well, originally, yes. But nowadays, it's almost impossible to distinguish castes from phenotype, now it's codified by descent and modern genomics has confirmed that the higher the caste you belong, more Aryan ancestry you have in your DNA.
‘You have so beautiful white skin’: India and its problems with skin colour

Not a problem at all evidently. Too complex. Let's focus on white people being racist in America.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:48 AM   #25
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No, I didn't say that. I actually mentioned that India is race-based society to a certain extent. And there's a reason of why I said that.

And I mentioned South Africa and Australia, which as I remember, are not situated in the American continent.
One key factor in every place you picked and it wasn't subconscious. White people. Meanwhile you absolutely jumped through hoops to absolve non-whites. Almost as if you have an agenda.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:49 AM   #26

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So a system that was based, and largely still based on "colour, phenotype and descent" is only a "certain extent" racist?

Wow, I guess we do need to focus on the racist white people and just ignore everyone else. Because privilege!
You seem really triggered and you are not thinking straight. How can you determine which Indian belong to the caste A and B in accordance to skin color or phenotype? Please, answer me to that question.

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Who wrote this?

"sort of racial hierarchy based on colour, phenotype and descent"

You did. Does China and other East Asian countries presently and historically categorize people by their skin color, phenotype, and descent? Absolutely they did and still do.
No, they didn't. That's why you are wrong.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 09:56 AM   #27

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One key factor in every place you picked and it wasn't subconscious. White people. Meanwhile you absolutely jumped through hoops to absolve non-whites. Almost as if you have an agenda.
It was the European colonizers of the New World that started to comprehensively classify and established a social hierarchy solely based on skin color and phenotype - that's how American colonial society was constructed.

Other societies around the world also had societies highly discriminatory, but they used other classifications for it - it doesn't make American society worse than the Indian one.

Last edited by robto; June 22nd, 2018 at 10:12 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:02 AM   #28

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So...all of the Americas, North Africans vs. Europeans (or are you forgetting those wars, the Pirates, etc), India, China (how they viewed Turks/steppe people, Japan vs. everyone not Japanese.

Thats actually quite a few. Plus layer tribalism on top of that.
North Africans vs Europeans was a religious conflict, not racial.

China viewed Turks/Steppe peoples as barbarians because of their culture and habits, not because of their phenotype or skin colour.

I'm not making the argument that those societies were better than the European colonial societies in the New World. The argument that I'm making is that societies have particular ways of discriminating. Indians had their own caste system, China had their distinction between Hua (華) and Yi (夷), the Muslim world had their religious discrimination, while the European settler colonies in the New World, South Africa and Australia had racism (by that I mean discrimination based on skin colour, descent and phenotype)

Why you guys are being so triggered by this?

Last edited by robto; June 22nd, 2018 at 10:05 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:04 AM   #29

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‘You have so beautiful white skin’: India and its problems with skin colour

Not a problem at all evidently. Too complex. Let's focus on white people being racist in America.
Colourism is a problem in those societies, but how's that comparable to a socially stratified society based on race and racial identity?
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Old June 22nd, 2018, 10:04 AM   #30
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That's completely false. Caste system is mostly based by descent, not by skin colour or phenotype. A Brahmin can very well be of darker complexion than some lower caste people. Originally the Caste system was strictly based on phenotype - since Aryan migrants were presumably lighter skinned than the earlier inhabitants of the Indus Valley - but admixture was so widespread, than it makes somewhat very difficult nowadays to completely castes mainly basing on phenotype alone.
The Indian name for the Hindu caste system is Varna. It means color, that historians say originally meant skin color. Here is the color designation in order of status:
Brahman (white)
Kshatriya (red)
Vaishya (yellow)
Shudra (black)

Though people have gotten mixed with time, there is still an observable correlation between lighter skin and higher caste.
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