Richard Stanbery

Who really wrote the Anglo-Saxon Riddles, and what was thier purpose?

Was it just an artform that was presented by the Scops? Perhaps whenever a Scop would stride to the center of the firelight and pronounce "HWÆT" to gain attention and begin the show, and then an oral riddle would precede a dramatic telling of a poem, like Beowulf? Is this how it was done?

And who can solve this one? It is from the Exeter Book...

Ic waes faemne geong, feaxhar cwene, ond aenlic rinc on ane tid; fleah mid fuglum ond on flode swom, deaf under ype dead mid fiscum, ond on foldan stop--haefde fero cwicu.

Modern Translation...

I was a young woman, a grey-haired woman, And a solitary warrior at the same time; I flew with the birds, swam upon the water, Dived beneath the waves, dead amongst the fish, And stepped upon the land--I had a living soul.

So what is up with these riddles? Would it have been uncommon for important men to pass letters one to another where a riddle was written in the text of a personal letter?

Rasta

Interesting. Either that or symbolic musings.

Richard Stanbery

Yes, I think so too.

If we compare Beowulf to the much later Canterbury Tales, we see that both of these are much too long to have been meant to be sung in one sitting (especially in a tavern-like setting among the rowdies). Even broken up in thier sections, they are rather long to have imagined a scop or bard doing a dramatic oratory with a lyre and a loud voice.

And so, I think that the Canterbury tales and Beowulf were meant to be entertainment for the higher classes, and presented at a Meade hall in a key-note ceremony or even a entertainment for visiting VIPs at an important festival. Perhaps even as a play.

In other words, these were not works meant for the rowdy lower classes or collections of soldiers, but as presentations for Kings and Lords. And so, they would have been done out by a more or less professional troupe of actors, and not just some scops singing for thier greyling and some meade from a horn cup.

I mean, these are heavy-mood works. Not really party readings. Beowulf might be the exception. I can see a lot of bawdy crowd participation in a reading of Beowulf. But these other Anglo-Saxon poems...well they just seem like downers. Check this out to see what I mean...


But Im not through thinking on this. How do you guys think these long literary works were meant to be consumed?

Andriko

Is the answer a statue of some sort, a maiden head if they had them in those days?

Edgewaters

Well ... I'm not so sure. You have to remember the lower classes are, in essence, an oral culture. People in oral cultures have an absolutely astonishing facility of memory. In the Gutenburg Galaxy, McLuhan writes about "the capacious medieval memory, which, untrammelled by the associations of print, could learn a strange language with ease and by the methods of a child, and could retain in memory and reproduce lengthy epic and elaborate lyric poems."

And it's difficult to see the Canterbury Tales as being exclusive to the upper crust; it's rude, bawdy, a medieval version of Benny Hill at times. It mocks every aspect of the social elites, sometimes portraying the clergy as petty criminals (eg the Friar), or perhaps as eunuchs who sell fake relics (eg the Pardoner). Important officials like the Summoner are trying to teach demons how to be more evil. In the Wife of Bath, marriage is portrayed as a form of prostitution and the gentlewoman as an overbearing slut. And then there's all the toilet humour.

Richard Stanbery

A maiden head? Well, there was a meaning that the word was used for that back then, but, er, uh...

Edge, you make a darn good point, my friend. The Canterbury Tales is all that you say it is, something attractive to the lower classes, at least publicly. I wonder if there were establishments like the "Hellfire Club" of the 18th century, where the upper classes could engage in bawdy stuff like that in private? I can see the Canterbury Tales as fitting right into that.

Especially when we consider the very high status that Chaucer held in the government circles. Thats probably the only way he could have presented his work during his lifetime.

As to the Anglo-Saxon riddles...I can see that being popular everywhere by everyone. But Beowulf is a different matter. True, the scops could probably remember it, but getting a meade hall full of drunken warriors to sit through 6000 lines of recited poetry would be quite a task. Even Bob Hope wouldnt be able to hold an audience for the hours needed to go through that one.

Maybe in a place where the audience had no where to go and nothing to do for hours on end would be a good place for a Beowulf recital. Perhaps it was something done on a ship? Something to row by to pass away the hours of monotony?

And so, maybe Beowulf originally dated back to the 5th century or before, when the Saxons were still pirates? And then, the old sea saga might have been modernized somewhat during the centuries following the Conquest into the poem we have today? But I dont think that Beowulf was written originally in runes. I think it probably didnt get put to paper until the Latinized alphabet of Old English came about.

A maidenhead....hmm. (In smile suppression mode now). But Im just being silly, dont pay any mind to me. It just took me by surprise, thats all. Im just being silly, Andriko.

But that might be it, who can say? It might be like a figurehead on a ship? Good idea.

Edgewaters

Well, there's that too. It sure isn't just lowbrow ribaldry, either. There's much in it that the average illiterate couldn't appreciate. Then again, it's in English; the tongue of the lower classes.

Also, we can see that this sort of humour wouldn't go over well if it had been Victorian elites and social institutions that were the target of his jabs, but I imagine things are probably different in Chaucer's time; the elites may well have been less rigid, and more capable of taking such things in good humour.

My own thought is that this had very broad appeal - you could enjoy it, no matter your station.

Well ... they had no television, no radio, no Internet, no silver screen. And they probably weren't getting sloshed every night. I doubt they could afford to do so. Could've been told in parts too; after all, it is divided into three separate episodes.

Richard Stanbery

Yes, and there are strange things intertwined into the story line that kinda date the thing...at least the version that we have today seems to be so.

One of the most significant dating clues is the use of the word Runestaffas (runestaves) which describes the runic characters (and thier meanings) that are written on the blade of the sword that Beowulf finds in the third monsters cave. That seems to add some air of pagan mysticism to the sword, which is also described as being the work of giants from the anti-deluvian era.

Both of these things make me think that the story was written after the Christianization of the Anglo-Saxons, and after the Latin letters were incoorporated into the Anglo-Saxon alphabet, which was a replacement scheme of the runic alphabet of earlier times.

But I just have to wonder about the date/version of the poem. Did it originate in the Christian era, or was it a cleaned up version of an earlier work? Was there a proto-Beowulf story that has been lost? And more importantly...when did Beowulf stop being used as a media? When and why did it fall out of common usage? Did that happen after 1066? Or was it banned by Edward the confessor?

As to Geofrey Chaucer...I think he would have been burned at the stake as a Lollard if his work would have been published while he was still alive. I cant see Henry IV publicly proclaiming it, or Richard either... But I wonder what John of Gaunt would have said about it in a public venue, such as if a deputation of foreign digniatries had asked him about The Canterbury Tales during an official function?

Sargon of Akkad

I have to say, this thread is innately fascinating. Good job, Richard.

Andriko

Richard, I know all about maidenhead's! And it is as a ship's figure head which I meant it. I am not sure if they were around in those days though (avoid rude joke).