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Old August 11th, 2018, 01:42 PM   #1
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The quest for the original homeland of the Latins.


Hello,
This has been a matter that has been wandering unanswered in my mind recently. Latins, were an Italic tribe. Latins produced the people we all know and love ==> The Romans.

But there is one thing that falls not answered upon, the question is "What is the original homeland of the Latins/Italics?!" I have had people saying they were Indo-Europeans, but almost get interrupted by people claiming they were Neolithic Europeans. Then the weirdest claim comes roundabout and it is "They came from Anatolia(??)". These claims were much, to answer one question with something close to certainty.

Do we have any proof of the original homeland of the Latins? Is it the Central Italy region? Did they come from the Balkans? Did they migrate from area of northern Italy(Villanovan culture)? Did they come from Hittites who came from Anatolia? Were they originally Anatolian? Did they have Northern European roots? (which Nordicists claim).
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Old August 13th, 2018, 12:48 PM   #2
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The early Italic languages arrived in Italy around 1000 BC from the east (likely Illyria). Early Latin was a local dialect later spoken in the small region called Latium and was influenced by Etruscan (a non IE language) and Greek which was spoken in nearby Greek colonies. Early Latin used a variation of the Greek alphabet and underwent a lot of refinement from crude samples from around 500 BC to the elegant language of the first century BC. However cruder versions continued to be spoken by the common people and soldiers throughout the Roman period. "Church Latin" is largely based on and pronounced like this Vulgar Latin or "Vulgate" (example: classical "equus"; vulgar "chevall" for horse.

Last edited by stevev; August 13th, 2018 at 02:11 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 02:57 PM   #3
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Actually the more correct Vulgate term for horse is "cabellus". However the Romans who settled in Gaul would likely say something closer to cavel, cavelle or chavell.

Last edited by stevev; August 13th, 2018 at 03:37 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 04:43 PM   #4
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Latin language is very similar too Homeric and Mycenaean Greek for example, in Linear B, Horse is EQU and is identical the Latin Equus (minus the case endings), another similarity, Latin as no definite articles as did Homeric Greek.

Latin also similar too Phoenician, as all the Mediterraneans languages that are unified with the common script.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 04:56 PM   #5

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Quote:
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The early Italic languages arrived in Italy around 1000 BC from the east (likely Illyria). Early Latin was a local dialect later spoken in the small region called Latium and was influenced by Etruscan (a non IE language) and Greek which was spoken in nearby Greek colonies. Early Latin used a variation of the Greek alphabet and underwent a lot of refinement from crude samples from around 500 BC to the elegant language of the first century BC. However cruder versions continued to be spoken by the common people and soldiers throughout the Roman period. "Church Latin" is largely based on and pronounced like this Vulgar Latin or "Vulgate" (example: classical "equus"; vulgar "chevall" for horse.
This is a phenomenon that has always fascinated me. Classical Latin developed as a parallel language of the lettered classes while the common folk used the many dialects of Vulgar Latin. This was the status quo during the Empire.

But then, as the Empire collapsed and Romance languages began to significantly differentiate from Vulgar Latin, a standardized Vulgar form replaced Classical Latin as the language of the (lettered) clerics - what we call Ecclesiastical Latin.

So the upper class written language ends up getting replaced by the common language - which, in so doing, becomes the new upper class written language (!).

Then things get really messy during the Renaissance and the Baroque, when scholars rediscover and attempt to revivify the Classical Latin forms and style at the same time that the use of vernacular languages in more official forums is becoming popularized.

So in places like France, England, and Italy during the 16th and 17th century for example, we have secular and humanist scholars writing in a revived Classical Latin often called "Neo-Latin", we have the Church and its institutions continuing the use of Ecclesiastical Latin, and then we have significant contributions being made in the vernacular languages of Europe. Many scholars such as Galileo and Newton published in both vernacular languages and in Latin, choosing one or the other for a particular work.

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Old August 13th, 2018, 05:53 PM   #6
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Romance languages are a myth, along with IE and PIE, they are inventions of the Catholic Church, Spanish and Latin are only similar when it comes to vocabulary, but Spanish have definite articles and a single-letter conjunction that are not present in Latin or Vulgar.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 06:04 PM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific_Victory View Post
This is a phenomenon that has always fascinated me. Classical Latin developed as a parallel language of the lettered classes while the common folk used the many dialects of Vulgar Latin. This was the status quo during the Empire.

But then, as the Empire collapsed and Romance languages began to significantly differentiate from Vulgar Latin, a standardized Vulgar form replaced Classical Latin as the language of the (lettered) clerics - what we call Ecclesiastical Latin.

So the upper class written language ends up getting replaced by the common language - which, in so doing, becomes the new upper class written language (!).

Then things get really messy during the Renaissance and the Baroque, when scholars rediscover and attempt to revivify the Classical Latin forms and style at the same time that the use of vernacular languages in more official forums is becoming popularized.

So in places like France, England, and Italy during the 16th and 17th century for example, we have secular and humanist scholars writing in a revived Classical Latin often called "Neo-Latin", we have the Church and its institutions continuing the use of Ecclesiastical Latin, and then we have significant contributions being made in the vernacular languages of Europe. Many scholars such as Galileo and Newton published in both vernacular languages and in Latin, choosing one or the other for a particular work.
There was never any "rediscovery" since most of surviving ancient Latin literature was already read to begin with. Pliny the Elder, Virgil and Ovid were very popular in the Christian Middle Ages centuries before the Renaissance, and Cicero wasn't unknown either even if not read as much before the 14th century.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 06:06 PM   #8

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Romance languages are a myth, along with IE and PIE, they are inventions of the Catholic Church, Spanish and Latin are only similar when it comes to vocabulary, but Spanish have definite articles and a single-letter conjunction that are not present in Latin or Vulgar.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #9
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60 percent of all English words have Latin roots but the Language is still classed as Germanic and this is the same percentage as Spanish, it's not Romance, it's Punic, that's where it's articles and the conjunction came from.
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Old August 13th, 2018, 06:42 PM   #10

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difficult to pin point as to when the latin speakers resided in italy but anything that did not enter italy via the east mediterranean post the chalcolithic came for sure from the carpatho-balkan area, the last to frequent that route were the germanic longobards; known is that latin belonged to the centum IE languages close to the italic/celtic langue group was q-italic and shared above all distinct features with venetic;

in the urnfield proto-villanovan period the area around latium and rome
typology of urns
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