Vladr72492

Hey!

This is my first time on this forum and I'm pretty excited.

I've got a Classics course and I wanted to be sure about a few events in ancient Greek history took place between 2,000 BC and 700 BC.


It is my understanding that around 2,000 BC a group of fair-skinned tribes came down from the Balkans and destroyed the Neolithic settlements in the Greek Peninsula. These people became the Mycenaeans who were in turn destroyed around 1,200 BC by the Sea People. What is the ethnicity of the Sea People? I understand that they impressed soldiers into their army, but what where they? Aryans? Germanic? Balkans?

My professor explained that this destruction of Mycenae was not a formal attack, but rather a mass migration into Greece. Does that mean that large tribes of gypsies would raid the Mycenaean cities? Why continue to travel westward if you could raze one city and settle there? Who did these raiders become? The Spartans/Dorians?

Who did the Classical Athenians descend from?

Can anyone give me a quick overview of cultural mixing in Greece?


This isnt necessary for the course, but I am still so curious. I would appreciate any answers.

Thanks in Advance,
Vlad

okamido

What is known is that several Mycenean Greek and Anatolian cities were affected heavily by their proximity to some very active fault lines. It is thought that advancing military technology, coupled with the possibility of some earthquake damaged or destroyed cities, enticing the Dorians into multiple invasions of Greece of a period of several hundred years. This harsh migration/ invasion could have caused people to flee across the sea, giving rise to one aspect of the Sea People.

Another simultaneous action would be the aformentioned possibilty of seismic activity, this time in western Anatolia, occuring during a time of severe famine. With the Hittites unable to maintain suzerainty over the west, those long held back people began to expand through raids and piracy, even against their old masters, the Hittites.

Merneptah's Egyptian forces defeated a large contingent of Libyans and invaders that they identified as Sea People, in a battle outside of the city of Perire. In correspondence to the Hittites, Merneptah castigated the Hittite King as to the reasons why he couldn't control his western territory. This shows that the Egyptians believed them to be Anatolian in origin.

Basically, what you have in the Sea People, is successive waves of refugees, pirates, and raiders, not one contingent of an identifiable people.

As to your question about the Spartans, they once were what you would consider, "true Greek", but after the migration, Dorians became what we think of now when the idea of Sparta comes up. With Athens, it was never conquered by the Dorians. They remained Greek from start to finish.

Lucius

I vote for the Achaeans, that is, the Mycenaean Greeks who lived in modern-day Cyprus, and along the coast of Asia Minor north of that island, around 1200 BC. But I'm sure I don't know what ethnicity that would be.

They might have been philistines.

As for your other questions, there are whole books written on the subjects and they don't all agree with each other.

beorna

We have some names of these sea-people, Tk3r(tshekel), Prwst(pelitshi), Shk3rsh, WaShaSh, further groups are the Sh3rd3n3, Aqi-wasa, Meshwesh, Luka, Turisha, Tjehenu, Tjemehu, Ekwesh, Danu

Tk3r around 1200, perhaps the Sikuli from Sicily
Prwst(pelistshi) at the end of 12th century. The Philistians
Shk3rsh around 1200, is another term for Sikuli
WaShaSh are widely unknown, perhaps it is wrongly written for the Aqi-wasa
MeShweSh seem to be a lybian people
Sh3rd3n3, at 1345 around Byblos, perhaps the Sardi, from Sardinia
Aqi-wasa is probably a name for Achaeans
Luka, in the 13th century, probably Lykians
Turisha, around 1200, perhaps the Tyrsenoi/Etruscans
Tjehenu and Tjemehu seem to be lybian people
Ekwesh, unknown
Danu, mid of 14th century, perhaps the Danaeans or the town Adana

I link the migration of the sea people with the expansion of the urnfield-culture. Not, that this means the sea-people are from within this culture, maybe they were, maybe they just pushed other groups forwards. But of course the old thesis of a great urnfield-people migration is no longer supported. so we don't have to expect mass migrations and sometimes just culturell exchange.

So who are these sea-people. All we can see is that they were mostly people from the north of the mediterranian sea, mainly from the Aegaeis and from southern Italy, but as well from Lybia. They first raided and invaded Little Asia and then the coasts of the Libanon, Kanaan and Egypt

Sargon of Akkad

I think its unlikely that they were the Mycenaeans though, as the Mycenaean and Minoans had palace civilizations with vast amounts of bureaucracy and anally-catalogued inventory systems. This doesn't scream "violent barbarian plunderers" to me.

I recall watching a documentary that suggested that most cities had their fortifications increased significantly shortly before the end of Mycenaean civilization, so it may be that the Danaans or Dorians or whatever proto-Greeks migrated to the area ended up trashing the place and replacing the old civilizations, before spreading out into the Eastern Mediterranean to terrorise people there.

Lucius

I don't know that it will ever be possible to set those dominoes back up again.

Spartacuss

Interesting. Herodetus frequently refers to the Spartans as Laconnians. Is this more for the region they occupied, or was this post-Dorian influence that produced a generalization of the society and culture of Laconia as a whole?

beorna

the dorian migration was once dated around 1200. For that time we have an destruction layer in a lot of mycenan upper-cities. But we know, that the most settlements were used on. Till around 1000 we have no break in the mycenan culture. So we can suppose that the later Dorians migrated in several waves in the 11th and 9th century to the Peloponnes. So the Dorians are not responsible for the migration of the sea people, perhaps just some stragglers.

BTW The Lakonians, Lakedaimonioi are all citizens, the Spartiatoi as well as the Perioikoi, who had to serve in the army as well. The Spartiatoi were the full citizens.

Frank81

Illiad and Odyssey don't support you, When you read those books, you understand that you are in front of savage invaders, the sea peoples. For some reasons, the equilibrium in the Aegean world broke, and peoples were throwed to a life of violence and conquer to survive.

beorna

both were written centuries later. The world that is shown in the Illas and Odyssey is the world of the 8th century