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Old November 20th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #11

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Wasn't sparticus thracian?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 11:25 AM   #12
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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


spartacus wass called Thracian, but that can mean ethnical Thracian, a person from the province Thracia or a light armoured gladiator.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #13

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Ancient sources state that Spartacus was thracian.
Some even point out the tribe of Maedi.

Plutarch writes the fallowing:
"The first of these was Spartacus, a Thracian of Nomadic stock, a possessed not only of great courage and strength, but also in sagacity and culture superior to his fortune, and more Hellenic than Thracian. It is said that when he was first brought to Rome to be sold, a serpent was seen coiled about his face as he slept, and his wife, who was of the same tribe as Spartacus, a prophetess, and subject to visitations of the Dionysiac frenzy, declared it the sign of a great and formidable power which would attend him to a fortunate issue. This woman shared in his escape and was then living with him."
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Old November 20th, 2010, 01:19 PM   #14

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


The Thracians remind me of the Alans in that, they may have been conquered several times, but their warriors were greatly respected and often used by the conquerers.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #15

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Dragon View Post
The Thracians remind me of the Alans in that, they may have been conquered several times, but their warriors were greatly respected and often used by the conquerers.
Indeed.That's the perfect summary for Thracians.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #16

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


the Thracian also have an interesting weapon called Rhomphaia.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #17

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


What few accounts of the slave revolt remain generally say Spatacus was Thracian. I kind of think accounts such as Plutarch's may lay it on a little thick so as to mitigate the embarrassment to Rome he caused. It was relatively easy for him to gather a slave army in the rather under-garrisoned area of Italy he escaped to. But it is apparent that he held all the qualities attributed to Thracian warriors, and capitalized on early Roman arrogance and stupidity well enough to run amok and gave freedom to at least some of his followers.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 08:11 AM   #18

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Thracians are rather a branch of nations, than a nation-like germanics. Dacians were thracians either, basically, even, probably mixed with schytians, germanics, celts. Illiraians and dalmathians were thracians either. But, yes, usually were called like this, those from Thrace provinces
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:53 AM   #19

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Polibius mentions the Thracians here http://www.questia.com/read/8959901?title=Book%20IV as invaders - "Histories IV:45", when he talks about the disadvantages of Byzantuim meaning the city, not the Byzantine Empire/. The Thracians were viewed as a separate culture in the Greek and the Hellenic time by the Greeks, although somehow related by divine genealogy /Thracians were regarded as coming from Thrax, a son of Ares, the Greek war god/.
They weren't assimilated by the Romans, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians"]Thracians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] due to the lack of urban centers the territory was hard to manage, so the Thracians remained Hellenized.
I don't think they vanished at all, they got intermarried with whoever came late, and left many of their pagan customs as a part of the Bulgarian folk culture. I would mention only the "nestinars" /the fire-dancers/, and the underlaying first cultural layer of the rain-dance "peperuda" /now, both those customs may have an overlapping layer of later Slavic or Old Bulgar religious rituals, this doesn't deny their base in Thrace/. Herodotus wrote a bunch on them, I'm going to scan for some ancient sources and follow up later. It's aslo plausible that some Thracians were forced in the mountains on the Balkans, /like the Romanised Vlachks - Dimitry Obolensky "The Byzantine Commonwealth"/ and survive even today. The rituals and customs in the Rodopa Mountain are different from the rest of Bulgarian ones, and ethnographically this part of Bulgaria is differs from the North and West Bulgaria. The same goes for music, and folk songs /the Rodopa bagpipes are an ancient art, different from the other Bulgarian musical folkcultures, one has only to hear Sofia bagpiping style and compare it to the Rodopa one to understand that, I will try to find some music links/. We owe more to the Thracians that we realize, and even according to the genetic studies more that 40% of the Bulgarian genome is Balkan one, against 16% Slavic. I also think that Romanians are Bulgarians are very closely related genetically because they both share the Thracian genome- Thraco-Dacian /the both countries are laying on the Thracian lands and heritage, even though the Thracian-Dacians got Romanized and became Romanians and the Thracians became Hellenized/, so on, more closely than Bulgarians are related to Greeks or Serbians. Only listening to folk music from the both countries one can tell how the music is organized in the same way, shares the same harmonies /folk music is very conservative through the ages, and can be used as a supporting cultural identity argument/.
The Thracians were in Orphism, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians"]Thracians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] actually the Greeks considered that eponimic hero of the cult, Orpheus, was a Thracian, son of the Thracian kind Oeagrus [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus"]Orpheus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]. Now, this is not to say that the Orphism was a Thracian cult, it was a Greek one, but it's plausible that it started from Thrace among the Greeks there or among the Hellenized Greeks. There are many Orphic artifacts in Thracian tombs in Bulgaria, signifying that the Thracians buried there were Orphists.

Last edited by Anna James; November 22nd, 2010 at 11:19 AM.
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Old November 22nd, 2010, 11:57 AM   #20

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Re: The Thracians and their place in history


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna James View Post
Polibius mentions the Thracians here http://www.questia.com/read/8959901?title=Book%20IV as invaders - "Histories IV:45", when he talks about the disadvantages of Byzantuim meaning the city, not the Byzantine Empire/. The Thracians were viewed as a separate culture in the Greek and the Hellenic time by the Greeks, although somehow related by divine genealogy /Thracians were regarded as coming from Thrax, a son of Ares, the Greek war god/.
They weren't assimilated by the Romans, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians due to the lack of urban centers the territory was hard to manage, so the Thracians remained Hellenized.
I don't think they vanished at all, they got intermarried with whoever came late, and left many of their pagan customs as a part of the Bulgarian folk culture. I would mention only the "nestinars" /the fire-dancers/, and the underlaying first cultural layer of the rain-dance "peperuda" /now, both those customs may have an overlapping layer of later Slavic or Old Bulgar religious rituals, this doesn't deny their base in Thrace/. Herodotus wrote a bunch on them, I'm going to scan for some ancient sources and follow up later. It's aslo plausible that some Thracians were forced in the mountains on the Balkans, /like the Romanised Vlachks - Dimitry Obolensky "The Byzantine Commonwealth"/ and survive even today. The rituals and customs in the Rodopa Mountain are different from the rest of Bulgarian ones, and ethnographically this part of Bulgaria is differs from the North and West Bulgaria. The same goes for music, and folk songs /the Rodopa bagpipes are an ancient art, different from the other Bulgarian musical folkcultures, one has only to hear Sofia bagpiping style and compare it to the Rodopa one to understand that, I will try to find some music links/. We owe more to the Thracians that we realize, and even according to the genetic studies more that 40% of the Bulgarian genome is Balkan one, against 16% Slavic. I also think that Romanians are Bulgarians are very closely related genetically because they both share the Thracian genome- Thraco-Dacian /the both countries are laying on the Thracian lands and heritage, even though the Thracian-Dacians got Romanized and became Romanians and the Thracians became Hellenized/, so on, more closely than Bulgarians are related to Greeks or Serbians. Only listening to folk music from the both countries one can tell how the music is organized in the same way, shares the same harmonies /folk music is very conservative through the ages, and can be used as a supporting cultural identity argument/.
The Thracians were in Orphism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians actually the Greeks considered that eponimic hero of the cult, Orpheus, was a Thracian, son of the Thracian kind Oeagrus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus. Now, this is not to say that the Orphism was a Thracian cult, it was a Greek one, but it's plausible that it started from Thrace among the Greeks there or among the Hellenized Greeks. There are many Orphic artifacts in Thracian tombs in Bulgaria, signifying that the Thracians buried there were Orphists.
Interesting post Anna.Thanks
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