Ancient science: Origins and myths - Historum

Thessalonian · December 2nd, 2010, 02:17 AM

Now this thread will burst into flames quickly I am afraid

Let's see some facts now...

Egyptians knew some basic geometry but that was practical, not scientific. They built their pyramids but they were astonished when Thales measured pyramids' height, comparing their shadow to the shadow of his stick. Babylonians knew some astronomy but they had no Orphics and Aristarchos to found the heliocentric system, neither Eratosthenes to measure the length of the meridian. Phoenicians were great explorers but it was Pytheas who recorded how the arctic ocean and Scandinavia looks like. Ancient Egyptians knew some medicine but it was Hippocrates who
was the Father of modern Medicine, In particular, he is credited with greatly advancing the systematic study of

Clinical_medicine

, summing up the medical knowledge of previous schools, and prescribing practices for physicians through the

Hippocratic_Oath

, Corpus and other works.

Nobody should care whether geography is a Greek or Japanese term. However, everyone should care that the only BCE civilization that recorded in books the existence of lands between Africa, India and Scandinavia was Greece.

Now, certain civilizations were better than Greece in specific subjects of science, but none of them was better in all or most of science. That makes Greece the most advanced civilization of its time, and up to 2nd century BCE, when it was conquered by Rome.

Now, before Lord or anyone else accuses me of "pride" or "nationalism", I remind them that those findings come from non-Greek scholars mostly.

3 2 1 ignition!

Thessalonian · December 2nd, 2010, 02:30 AM

Eratosthenes, was the first person to use the word "geography" and invented the discipline of geography as we understand it.[3] He invented a system of

Latitude

and

Longitude

.

He was the first person to calculate the circumference of the earth by using a measuring system using stades, or the length of stadiums during that time period (with remarkable accuracy). He was the first person to prove that the Earth was round. He was the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth's axis (also with remarkable accuracy). He may also have accurately calculated the

Astronomical_unit

and invented the

Leap_day

.[4] He also created a map of the world based on the available geographical knowledge of the era. In addition, Eratosthenes was the founder of scientific chronology; he endeavored to fix the dates of the chief literary and political events from the conquest of

Troy

.
According to an entry[5] in the

Suda

(a 10th century reference), his contemporaries nicknamed him beta, from the second letter of the Greek alphabet, because he supposedly proved himself to be the second best in the world in almost every field.

Eratosthenes

**Edgewaters** · December 2nd, 2010, 03:24 AM

I don't think you can call anything in the ancient world "science" in the same sense as we mean today. Science isn't about what you know, it's about how you came to know it: the methodology. And while the ancients could discover advanced knowledge, they never got there with truly scientific methodology. Some came close to developing scientific methodology (eg Aristotle) but ... they were never quite able to accept empiricism as absolute and they were usually incapable of distinguishing or disentangling science from other activities such as religion and art. Nor did they ever develop a solid criteria for scientific methodology.

**Toltec** · December 2nd, 2010, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thessalonian

Phoenicians were great explorers but it was Pytheas who recorded how the arctic ocean and Scandinavia looks like.

Himilco wrote a lost account of Europe which like Pytheas's survives only in fragments in other's works.

but Hanno completely trumps Pytheas writing a century older, surviving account of his exploration of Africa.

Your post seems to be implying that the first Greek to do something was the first person to do it unless people proven otherwise. In that case I will assume the first person to do it, wasn't Greek, unless proven otherwise.

Thessalonian · December 2nd, 2010, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgewaters

I don't think you can call anything in the ancient world "science" in the same sense as we mean today. Science isn't about what you know, it's about how you came to know it: the methodology. And while the ancients could discover advanced knowledge, they never got there with truly scientific methodology. Some came close to developing scientific methodology (eg Aristotle) but ... they were never quite able to accept empiricism as absolute and they were usually incapable of distinguishing or disentangling science from other activities such as religion and art. Nor did they ever develop a solid criteria for scientific methodology.

it was purely scientific methodology really. Proof using deductive reasoning is science. do not confuse greek with egyptian please.

Narses · December 2nd, 2010, 03:41 AM

The sad part is when the library of Alexandria went into flame, most of the ancient world knowledge are forever lost with it.

The entire modern science, evolved from the renaissance, rooted from the Greek and Roman science, so their influences can never be overstated.

Thessalonian · December 2nd, 2010, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toltec

Himilco wrote a lost account of Europe which like Pytheas's survives only in fragments on other's works.

but Hanno completely trumps Pytheas writing a century older, surviving account of his exploration of Africa.

You post seems to be implying that the first Greek to do something was the first person to do it unless people proven otherwise. In that case I will assume the first person to do it, wasn't Greek, unless proven otherwise.

Himilco did not get to Scandinavia, did not see drifting ice on the sea and as far as Hanno is concerned, he did not get to India or Scandinavia either.
My post, unlike yours, contains no speculations. Until you have solid proof, it was the Greeks who went all the way from India to Scandinavia and Africa. You assume, I state facts.

**Linschoten** · December 2nd, 2010, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Himilco wrote a lost account of Europe which like Pytheas's survives only in fragments on other's works.

but Hanno completely trumps Pytheas writing a century older, surviving account of his exploration of Africa.

You post seems to be implying that the first Greek to do something was the first person to do it unless people proven otherwise. In that case I will assume the first person to do it, wasn't Greek, unless proven otherwise.

I think this actually supports Thessalonian's basic point quite well. The Carthaginians left accounts of voyages, Hanno's cruise down the west coast of Africa, Himilco's to the North, apparently as far as Britanny, but the knowledge gained was not integrated into a consistent body of geographical knowledge as was that gained by Pytheas. There is a difference between the gathering of practical information (the Carthaginians were interested in trade routes) and the development of a science of geography. What is more, Pytheas himself had scientific interests and took a scientific approach in his investigations in so far as that was possible. He made gnomon measurements, for instance, to try to chart his journey as accurately as possible, although it was not yet possible to use these measurements to establish absolute latitudes. Hipparchos, a Greek, would you believe it, first worked out how to do that a couple of centuries later.