Was Crassus Jealous of Pompey? - Page 3 - Historum

**Mandate of Heaven** · November 19th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doru

How right you are. He also sponsored Claudius, who was kind of a gangster (the para-military wing of the popular party) leading armed bands of gladiator, or civilians, and fighting with Crassus' opponents para-military forces (that were led by Millo, if i'm not mistaken; in fact a real gang war, in wich Claudius is ambushed and killed at one point).

As a footnote, Claudius was a very shady character, that was suspected to have incestous relations with his 2 sisters and, of course, with Caesar's second wife (this is a really amusing story, and should be studyed). But with all his flaws, Claudius was of tremendous help to Crassus and Caesar. He was the brute force under their machinations.

A lost bet for Crassus was the financing of Catilina (capable but temperamental character), wich could have brought both Caesar and Crassus down ( Crassus goes in to hiding after Catilina is accused).

Pompei had his own gang that was just as bad as Clodius.

BTW, it's Clodius. I know he's from the Claudian family, but his name was Clodius.

Doru · November 19th, 2011, 09:14 PM

I never said he didn't. About the name, sorry for the mix up. In romanian it's Claudiu, and it is a very frequent name, so it camed naturaly.

**Mandate of Heaven** · November 19th, 2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doru

I never said he didn't. About the name, sorry for the mix up. In romanian it's Claudiu, and it is a very frequent name, so it camed naturaly.

Clodius deliberately changed his name from the patrician Claudius to be plebian Clodius. So the distinction is important to some people.

Doru · November 20th, 2011, 12:46 AM

Well, i am gratefull for the information. I will try not to forget it, bu i doubt it. There is a large area of the history i am interested and, even tough the whole antiquity isn't part of it, i have read quite a few on Caesar and the Civil War. But i wright out of memory, without checking my facts, so this kind of mistakes may apeare. I am gratefull for people like you who do remember it, and save me from my error.

That being said, i hope you will overlook future misspelling and wrong dates from my part in the interess of a flowing discussion about the facts, wich are a bit more important.

Pavel · November 20th, 2011, 03:22 AM

Pompey, did he choke to the death?

**Mandate of Heaven** · November 20th, 2011, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavel

Pompey, did he choke to the death?

Pompey choked in Pharsalus, if that's what you mean.

sylla1 · November 21st, 2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandate of Heaven

Clodius deliberately changed his name from the patrician Claudius to be plebian Clodius. So the distinction is important to some people.

Nope; that is just a wiki-confusion.

Clodius is just a valid alternative Latin spelling of the nomen Claudius, preferred by plenty of historians to refer to the (in)famous Publius Claudius Pulcher, the paradoxical Patrician tribune of the Plebs of DCXCVI AUC / 58 BC, the notorious mortal enemy of MT Cicero and a direct illegal product of the CJ Caesar- Cn Pompeius - ML Crassus compact (the mistakenly called "first triumvirate") in opposition to other members of such Gens.

As PCC was adopted by an otherwise unknown Publius Fonteius (without cognomen), technically he should have been re-named Publius Fonteius Claudianus (or Clodianus) with the optional addition of the agnomen Pulcher.
AFAIK there's no hard evidence that such re-naming may have actually happened, and in fact it is well attested that the sons of good ol' PC Clodius continued using their previous named.
However, such technical naming irregularities were hardly illegal and actually quite common during the late Republican period.
E.g. Decimus Brutus Albinus (one of the Liberatores who killed CJ Caesar) preserved his original name even after being adopted by Postumius Albinus.

**Mandate of Heaven** · November 21st, 2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylla1

Nope; that is just a wiki-confusion.

Clodius is just a valid alternative Latin spelling of the nomen Claudius, preferred by plenty of historians to refer to the (in)famous Publius Claudius Pulcher, the paradoxical Patrician tribune of the Plebs of DCXCVI AUC / 58 BC, the notorious mortal enemy of MT Cicero and a direct illegal product of the CJ Caesar- Cn Pompeius - ML Crassus compact (the mistakenly called "first triumvirate") in opposition to other members of such Gens.

As PCC was adopted by an otherwise unknown Publius Fonteius (without cognomen), technically he should have been re-named Publius Fonteius Claudianus (or Clodianus) with the optional addition of the agnomen Pulcher.
AFAIK there's no hard evidence that such re-naming may have actually happened, and in fact it is well attested that the sons of good ol' PC Clodius continued using their previous named.
However, such technical naming irregularities were hardly illegal and actually quite common during the late Republican period.
E.g. Decimus Brutus Albinus (one of the Liberatores who killed CJ Caesar) preserved his original name even after being adopted by Postumius Albinus.

Um, are you saying that plebian spelling is invalid?

sylla1 · November 21st, 2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandate of Heaven

Um, are you saying that plebian spelling is invalid?

Nope, because there was no such thing as any "plebian spelling".

The republican Gens Claudia included both patrician and plebeian branches (both sides equally noble); again, Clodius was a valid alternative Latin spelling for the nomem of any of them.

**Mandate of Heaven** · November 21st, 2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylla1

Nope, because there was no such thing as any "plebian spelling".

The republican Gens Claudia included both patrician and plebeian branches (both sides equally noble); again, Clodius was a valid alternative Latin spelling for the nomem of any of them.

Right. Patricians were equally noble to the plebians.

And the only reason that Clodius, as a plebian, was just as aristocratic as Patricians was that he was from one of the best known Patrician family.

Please give proof that there's no such thing as "plebian spelling". (Primary source please)

And I did not say Clodius is an invalid spelling.