Did Ancient Egypt Save the Civilized World? - Page 3 - Historum

mansamusa · March 29th, 2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thessalonian

What rebirth? Trade is one thing, rebirth is quite another......

I was adressing the point made by Nikator who spoke about the rebirth of Greek civilization after the Dorian conquest. Naukrtis in the delta region of Ancient Egypt seemed to have been a very important centre of Greek Culture and Trade, during the Greek Archaic period, known as the Age of Revolution.

Pythagoras · March 29th, 2012, 10:07 AM

I think the question should be paraphrased as:

Were the "Sea People" capable of destroying human civilization in the Eastern Mediterranean?

Even though the sources that we have for these so-called "Sea People" are limited, I doubt so.

mansamusa · March 29th, 2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pythagoras

I think the question should be paraphrased as:

Were the "Sea People" capable of destroying human civilization in the Eastern Mediterranean?

Even though the sources that we have for these so-called "Sea People" are limited, I doubt so.

Thanks for the input. I would tend to agree, especially considering the fact that in the case of the Philistines we had a situation where this invasion of Sea Peoples may have led to a new and relatively vigourous and sophisticated urban civilization, if am reading my sources correctly, from the previous quote from Ian Shaw.

Darth Roach · March 29th, 2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brisieis

Funny how fanboys are only Greek, why are you not calling mansamusa an Egyptian fanboy? Clearly the guy has an agenda to promote Egypt and destroy Greece - these threads are getting more and more pathetic by the day.

Enjoy your little mission mansamusa, I am sure there are plenty of gullible people you can convince.

Where did I say he is not? Although he hasn't shown any typical signs of fanboyism aside from over-dramatic thread titles.

I will be frank here - I hate Egytpian fanboys as much as Greek fanboys. It's just that the Greek fanboys are always much more aggressive and noticeable.

**spellbanisher** · March 29th, 2012, 11:07 AM

What about China and India? There were civilizations in places other than the Mediterranean.

Thessalonian · March 29th, 2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mansamusa

I was adressing the point made by Nikator who spoke about the rebirth of Greek civilization after the Dorian conquest. Naukrtis in the delta region of Ancient Egypt seemed to have been a very important centre of Greek Culture and Trade, during the Greek Archaic period, known as the Age of Revolution.

What you actually proved is that unlike the Egyptians, the Greeks established colonies all over the place... Europe, Asia, Africa etc.

Nikator · March 29th, 2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mansamusa

But you also seem to leave out the fact that Ancient Egypt was able to outlive Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian occupation. Assyria especially rose and completely died out. Even during Greek and Roman occupation we had a situation where the occupiers ended up absorping many aspects of the civilization they conquered. It was the Islamic conquest of Egypt that completely wiped out Ancient Egyptian culture.

And I imagine the rebirth of Greek civilization was partially influenced by its relationship with Egypt during the Saitic dynasty:

Warring Greeks found peace in ancient Egypt: Researcher uncovers origins of Greek trade city in Egypt's Nile delta region

I agree with much of what your source says. Naucratis was an influential and important city and undoubtedly some of Egyptian culture mingled with the Greek culture there and this fed back a bit to mainland Greece. However, as your own source says, Naucratis was established by Eastern Greeks who were already making material and intellectual advances back in Greece. Naucratis isn't established until the 7th century and by this point the urban Greek culture was thoroughly alive and kicking, I'm not aware of any provable/direct connection between Egypt and this natural revival (the same revival that happened in Anatolia and the Levant).

I have no doubt that Egyptian culture remained strong well into the Classical Period. What I meant was that effectively after the Assyrian conquest Egypt is never again an independent polity after 667BC bar the period between 653-525BC. I just think this has something to do with the urban and cultural renewal that happened in the rest of the Eastern Mediterranean but not Egypt. Also, from a cultural standpoint I would argue the Persian culture last just as long (both fall to Islam at roughly the same time) although you are right, the Mesopatamiam culture is basically snuffed out by the 1st century AD (reference: Civilizations of Ancient Iraq by Foster and Polinger Foster).

**Guaporense** · March 29th, 2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

What about China and India? There were civilizations in places other than the Mediterranean.

Actually, there weren't civilizations in China and India during this period, 1200 BC to 1400 BC. The Indus valley civilization had already collapsed and Indic civilization would jetstart again in 500 BC, while Chinese civilization would began around 1200 BC - 1100 BC, at the end of this period.

The only place in the world where there was a civilization to fall was Western Eurasia.

**Guaporense** · March 29th, 2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mansamusa

But you also seem to leave out the fact that Ancient Egypt was able to outlive Assyrian, Babylonian and Persian occupation. Assyria especially rose and completely died out. Even during Greek and Roman occupation we had a situation where the occupiers ended up absorping many aspects of the civilization they conquered. It was the Islamic conquest of Egypt that completely wiped out Ancient Egyptian culture.

Roman Egypt was quite hellenized. What we know as Ancient Egyptian culture only truly existed in the bronze age.

**spellbanisher** · March 29th, 2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guaporense

Actually, there weren't civilizations in China and India during this period, 1200 BC to 1400 BC. The Indus valley civilization had already collapsed and Indic civilization would jetstart again in 500 BC, while Chinese civilization would began around 1200 BC - 1100 BC, at the end of this period.

The only place in the world where there was a civilization to fall was Western Eurasia.

There was civilization in China. Archaelogical evidence indicates the likely existence of the Xia dynasty, which dates to the 21st century BCE.

Xia Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Archaeologists have uncovered urban sites, bronze implements, and tombs that point to the possible existence of the Xia dynasty at locations cited in ancient Chinese historical texts. There exists a debate as to whether or not Erlitou culture was the site of the Xia dynasty. Radiocarbon dating places the site at ca. 2100 to 1800 BC, providing physical evidence of the existence of a state contemporaneous with and possibly equivalent to the Xia Dynasty as described in Chinese historical works.[10] In 1959, a site located in the city of Yanshi was excavated containing large palaces that some archaeologists have attributed to capital of the Xia Dynasty. Through the 1960s and 1970s, archaeologists have uncovered urban sites, bronze implements, and tombs in the same locations cited in ancient Chinese historical texts regarding Xia;[11] at a minimum, the Xia Dynasty marked an evolutionary stage between the late neolithic cultures and the typical Chinese urban civilization of the Shang Dynasty.[11]
As reported in 2011, Chinese archaeologists have uncovered the remains of an imperial sized palace—dated to about 1700 BC—at Erlitou in Henan, lending further weight to evidence for the existence of the Xia Dynasty

The well attested Shang Dynasty first arose in the Seventeenth Century BCE.