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Old October 8th, 2012, 12:39 AM   #801
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Rome, if not through technological achievements, then through providing for its typical citizen, whereas Han chinese citizens most likely went hungry. At least there's no record of the opposite happening. Of course this luxury was also part of Rome's downfall.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #802
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Not true. Both the US and Germany industrialized before they become colonial powers. The US did not become a colonoal power until the Spanish American War, when it was already an industrial power. Both Germany and US became colonial powers more for prestige, rather than any wealth that acquired from the colonies. When Germany lost all its colonies at the end of WW1, it still remain an leading industrial country.

Nothing shows that claim to be a false the fact that Europe, after its lost all its colonies, is still wealthy and a leading industrial area of the world. Countries that never had much in the way of colonies, like Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, and Germany are better off than countries that had large colonies like Britain and Spain.

As for having less wars than Britain, possibly true. China had its share of wars, but the surrounding countries like Vietnam were not likely to start a fight with a giant neighbor like China if they could help it. But Britain was surrounded by a lot more neighbors, of all of comparable power, and most of the wars that Britain fought were with its own European neighbors. If you have the largest empire the world has ever seen, that spans the entire world, you are naturally going to come in contact, and therefore potential conflict, with more people that the isolationist Chinese.

But the Chinese did try to colonize other countries, Vietnam, Tibet, but those countries managed to kick out the Chinese. (It wasn't until the Chinese had modern Western technology to use that the recolonized Tibet in the 20th century, a land that had adopted little Western technology. Vietnam had aquired Western technology to defend itself, so the Chinese couldn't recolonize it.) What ever happened in the past, China is today's biggest colonizer in the classic sense, with is colonial occupation of Tibet.
Yes, like china was planning to colonize vietnam in the 1979 invasion. Do you think we are stupid?

The tibetans did not manage to kick out china. They got their butts kicked by the Qing general Zhao Erfeng in the early 1900s, china took control of lhasa, and the tibetans only managed to force the manchu amban out when the xinhai revolution occured. Then when the dalai lama tried to invade qinghai in the 1932 Sino Tibetan War, he got beaten and was forced to beg britain for a ceasefire agreement with china before tibet was reconquered.

Merchants have nothing to do with economic progress. There were tons of merchants in decaying civilizations, so i don't even know why you are trying to claim china hated merchants when it doesn't even need to conflict with your anti china hatred. China had tons of merchants in the qing dynasty, even interior provinces like shaanxi. You are confusing merchants with bankers and industrialists, which china didn't have.

China conquered the tarim basin twice in the han and tang dynasties. The tarim basin was inhabited by indo european, white, caucasian tocharians. China only established a military protectorate over them after liberating them from the xiongnu and gokturks, and did not exploit their resources or swamp the area with chinese. They left native kings in place like in the british raj.

When the qing conquered the tarim basin again, they again established a protectorate, allowing local leaders in place like the kumul khanate, and only settled han and manchus in ili, not on the tarim.

America is actually the biggest colonizer in the classic sense. Every inch of its land is colonized.

During the anglo afghan wars, afghans with primitive weapons, matchlocks and swords thrashed britain around and decimated their armies equipped with flintlocks and other advances guns. Britain beating china in the opium wars had nothing to do with its advance tech, but because of the poor training of the chinese army. Koreans armed with matchlocks and swords thrashed americans armed with modern rifles in the general sherman incident.

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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #803

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China has been the most consistently advanced civilization throughout history.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #804

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China has been the most consistently advanced civilization throughout history.
Really? I will agree that at times in history China has been far and away the most advanced civilization but there have been times of great turmoil within China when their civilization has regressed greatly. A recent example of this is The Cultural Revolution. It set China back decades in development. Scores of people have opined that had the revolution not occurred China would be more advanced than most nations in the world in the present day.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #805

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Really? I will agree that at times in history China has been far and away the most advanced civilization but there have been times of great turmoil within China when their civilization has regressed greatly. A recent example of this is The Cultural Revolution. It set China back decades in development. Scores of people have opined that had the revolution not occurred China would be more advanced than most nations in the world in the present day.
Compare that with Europe with 800 year old dark age or India which has no contributions to world civilization other than number system and zero.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #806

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Compare that with Europe with 800 year old dark age or India which has no contributions to world civilization other than number system and zero.
Really, you can say with confidence that India has contributed nothing to the world civilization other than the number system and zero? I am not a student of Indian history but on logic alone I would have to disagree with you.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #807
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Really? I will agree that at times in history China has been far and away the most advanced civilization but there have been times of great turmoil within China when their civilization has regressed greatly. A recent example of this is The Cultural Revolution. It set China back decades in development. Scores of people have opined that had the revolution not occurred China would be more advanced than most nations in the world in the present day.
I didn't revive this thread for people to get into this argument again. I don't agree with these subjective titles of "most advanced", I was responding to another user's vicious attacks on non western civilizations, including both india and china. We should end this thread.

Last edited by deke; November 24th, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #808

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Really, you can say with confidence that India has contributed nothing to the world civilization other than the number system and zero? I am not a student of Indian history but on logic alone I would have to disagree with you.
That's the only useful thing I can think of. Sure yoga, transcendentalism, curry, and Bollywood are everywhere but they have no practical use.

Compare this with China who has pages upon pages of extremely practical, useful inventions that we would be incomplete without.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #809
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Indian contribution to the world is enormous, not proper research on it, thats all

one single example

Many historians say the Phoenicians brought alphabet system to the world, they introduced to Greeks

But the truth is that the Indians who introduced alphabet system

the Phoenicians relations with Greeks during the Mycenaean era, we found the thebes tablets (palm leaf shaped) in this period

The only place in the world where people use the palm leaves for writing is India, many of the goods Phoenicians carried found in India

alphabet = alpha (A) + bet (B) the first two letters

alpha - bull - male (A indicates the head of the bull)
arthu - bull in tamil (indian language)

bet - house (b <--> v) (B indicates the two storied house, one for male and another for female)
vetu - house in tamil (indian language)

M - mem - water (M indicates the tidal waves)
am - water in tamil

Q - quipos (monkey with tail)
kapi - monkey in tamil
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #810
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Indians introduced the world's first docking system in Lothal

Metallurgy - Zinc extraction, wootz steel

Medicine - Rhinoplasty

Democracy - Lumbini in ancient India

etc
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