warfare- farmers verses hunters - Historum

athena · May 2nd, 2012, 07:10 AM

Anyone who knows the bible knows of Cain and Able.

Quote:

Cain is described as a crop farmer and his younger brother Abel as a shepherd. Genesis 4:2 Cain is portrayed as sinful, committing the first murder by killing his brother, after God rejected his offerings of produce but accepted Abel's sacrifice "from the firstborn of his flock and from their fats".Genesis 4:1,3 Thus, Cain was the first human born, and Abel the first to die.

Wikipedia

I believe this is a record of history. I believe it is the history of nomadic herders entering Mesopotamia, and the winners got to tell the story. Might we explore this, by examining the different styles of warfare?

Quote:

"The types of forces built by a society were a reflection of its economic structure. Nations that evolved in open regions tended to develop mobile units based on chariots and, later, horses. Their armies were extensions of an economy based on animal husbandry. They tend to emphasize missile weapons, in particular the bow. In the Scythian and Persian armies, mounted archers used an extension of herd control techniques to bury their enemies in a cloud of arrows.

Armies created by subsistence farming cultures tended to emphasize shock combat and short-range missile weapons, such as the javelin. Their weapons were extensions of farm implements. They developed dense formations of foot soldiers whose numbers and body armour enabled them to close with an enemy and defeat them in massed, hand to hand combat."

from Atlas of World Military History edited by Richard Brooks

tomar · May 2nd, 2012, 07:34 AM

Well its rather obvious, is it not.. .You use what you have... if you have horses (or elephants or camels), you use them...

If you have numbers, you use them

If you have Iron, you use Iron weapons....

What exactly is your question ?

athena · May 3rd, 2012, 05:33 PM

Can you expound a little more on the different world views? Like may be farmers are busy with their farms, and aren't out looking for trouble? Might they be more inclined to relate to a mother earth goddesses? Might such differences effect the cultures relationship to war?

fick · May 3rd, 2012, 08:12 PM

cain and able are both farmers. cows vs corn is a common problem and has been at least since poseidon and athena had different ideas for athens

the neolithics of stublina had an army maybe??

peace

HackneyedScribe · May 3rd, 2012, 08:55 PM

Nomadic advantage: Tougher men/horses, better ability to fight on horseback, superior skill at the Parthian shot, choosing the battlefield, able to avoid bigger armies, able to attack smaller armies piecemeal.

Sedentary advantage: Better equipment, better drilling, more men at disposal, better ability to fight on foot, men can fight better in formation, better combined arms tactics

This was according to Chao Cuo, who lived from ~200 BC to 150 BC.

athena · May 4th, 2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HackneyedScribe

Nomadic advantage: Tougher men/horses, better ability to fight on horseback, superior skill at the Parthian shot, choosing the battlefield, able to avoid bigger armies, able to attack smaller armies piecemeal.

Sedentary advantage: Better equipment, better drilling, more men at disposal, better ability to fight on foot, men can fight better in formation, better combined arms tactics

This was according to Chao Cuo, who lived from ~200 BC to 150 BC.

Hey, I really appreciate that information. For me all this is kind of like trying to figure out a puzzle. Like imagine if you never saw a man on a horse before, and suddenly there is a horse racing at you and the man on it has weapons and is killing people. This must have been terrifying. Men on horses would surround everyone as they do when hunting animals, and this puts people on their feet, in a pack trying defend themselves. Each learns from the other how to engage in war.

Evidence indicates people lived in the open, and when these invasions began, they moved to places that were easier to defend. The whole order of society changes and taxes become essential to supporting government and an army. Government buildings and statues become huge, and begin to loose their connection with nature. The mother goddess disappears or becomes subordinate to a male God. These are significant cultural changes, evolving out of war, that is very different from raiding parties of people who come on foot and leave on foot, taking maybe food and females, but not really doing much damage.