arras

First of all, all Athenian citizens were "common citizens". Hoplite class were core of such ordinary citizenry.

Also why do you think that "Hoplites and cavalrymen" were rowing alongside people from lower orders of society? That would have been complete waste of resources if done on any regular basis.

And finally to your question: democracy was established in Athens before Athens became major naval power, therefore, no, navy was not cause of democracy in Athens. However it certainly helped to keep and strengthen it. It gave lower orders importance and thus bargaining power in society.

Earl_of_Rochester

You know there's something wrong with your social life when you spend the weekend drinking with your buddies and all you want to do is check the thread on the Athenian Navy. My street cred is suffering because of historum.

Davidius

The Ancient Greeks had tribes, they formed the basis of the early democracy. They also had states, specifically city states.

Ten Tribes of Athens - Cleisthenes' Creation of the Ten Tribes of Athens - 10 Tribes of Athens

President Camacho

I started reading some of the replies and then I got kind of put off by the replies...

I understand that Cleisthenes used democracy as a tool to rise to political power - the first Demagogue, if you will. He provided an institution that was so well liked and respected by the Athenian plebian mindset that he and his system were propelled to LEGITIMATE rule. Perversion, Perversion, Perversion. Idealism, Idealism, Idealism. We still are in a direction towards/backwards an aristocratic society - one in which we're all here, equal, and have a voice on the surface but certain families rule. The noble families are still VERY much in control and have been competing violently with other noble families for control. Damn the people.

The opportunistic Alcmeaonidaes resorted to democracy because they were being effectively edged OUT of Athenian political supremacy. They were outcasts who changed themselves into heroes of the people. They didn't really want to do it. They were forced to. They paid to do it.

Other people supported by wealth wrote about them in a favorable light. Like a Virgil.

"Democracy" was there because of aristocratic families in neeeeeed. To believe in Pericles' funeral oration is to believe in every war time general's emotional speeches. We weren't there. We have fragmented information from LIMITED sources. We can safely assume extreme exaggeration to illicit emotional responses such as loyalty and gratuity.

I dunno... maybe I'm just disillusioned about democracy but... triremes did have much to do with the advancement of the working man ... A LOT

The fighting man only had the legitimate vote in the ancient world. It was the man with power who had sway. Anyone in the army had more say than someone who didn't. If those who fought for Athens came from some other class than those who could afford armor... WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN WHO HAD THE P@NIS. That's important to consider in this time... who was the man? Who was the phallus and who the sphincter? That's legitimate. That's who could speak. That's who should be heard.

So in the end we have some unwanted shift for the aristocracy, wanted by demagogues in power (the Alc. family), and taken in like Miracle Grow for the working man/military man.... and it led to Athens.

Weird... normal people felt more invested in their city the more they were given responsibility for its EVERYTHING.

arras

Those Athenian tribes were administrative institutions, not real tribes. They were basically voting districts and created arbitrarily.

Davidius

But as the link said, those ten tribes were based on four original tribes.

Earl_of_Rochester

A rather confusing period of history, I shall reply in force once I get my facts straight. I'm still muddling through the aforementioned book and I think I was probably wrong with regards to class and class consciousness, but echelons of society with hoplites, aristocracy etc certainly did exist, they just didn't suffer the modern prejudice we associate with class. I think the only comparable thing would be citizens and non citizens.

Guaporense

They started out as tribes in 850 BC, over the next centuries their civilization evolved in classical greek civilization and tribes gave way to states.

arras

That might have been purely symbolic. Othervise division was arbitrary: 3 (or was it 4?) areas -like coast, hinterland and so on and each subdivided further with each tribe having part from each area. Idea was to subdivide population evenly across whole Atica. It is clear that it could not have been based on actual tribes, they would hardly be spread evenly.

arras

There certainly was class consciousness. Athenian society was divided on basis of wealth (counted on agricultural output of household). Primarily this division served for military purposes. And there was Athenian aristocracy, which was not abolished by democracy. It probably played also social role but it did not matter in politics. All citizens (adult male citizens) had same political rights.