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Old May 6th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #31

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They say Crassus was intentionally betrayed. But how can we know that is true? We can assume, but you cannot be as sure as you are.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 10:17 AM   #32

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The Samnites haven't been mentioned yet. They were a constant threat to Rome during the 4th century BC, and notoriously humiliated the Romans at the Caudine Forks in 321 BC. Even in the 1st century BC the Samnites were a threat, first during the Social War until Sulla invaded and laid waste to Samnium, and later in the Sullan Civil War when they almost defeated Sulla in the battle of the Colline Gate. He did nasty things to them afterwards.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Roach View Post
They say Crassus was intentionally betrayed. But how can we know that is true? We can assume, but you cannot be as sure as you are.
Uhm... I'm only arguing the improbability of the tale of Dio over that of Plutarch. The question of betrayal or just a deal gone bad wasn't really the point I was making, but a given, who knows? We can't be a 100% sure due to a lack of sources...
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Old May 6th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #34

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Well in terms of sheer numbers of losses inflicted by a single state, I'd say the lead is taken by the Sassanids, by far. They killed 3 emperors, and won quite a few times. Though, to be honest, the Romans did to them far worse than they did to the Romans. I guess it's just because they were next to each other for four hundred years.
Carthage probably killed more Romans, much more in proportion of the total population.

Hannibal's invasion of Italy is even reflected in the archaeological record in the coin hoards: people were hoarding coins due to the devastation of the war! Never before or after such devastation was inflicted to Rome in their Italian homelands.

Last edited by Guaporense; May 6th, 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #35
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He means in total numbers of men killed, I doubt any ancient power can match what the Sassanids were able to do , the Roman-Persian wars were among the most destructive in history .
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Old May 7th, 2012, 06:58 AM   #36

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The battlefield casualties are always over exaggerated by the winning side to make them look better. This is a tradition that has gone on since the beginning of civilization.
When the Egyptian Pharoeh put together an army to do battle with the Hittites, they were defeated by the Hittites and driven back to Egypt. But the Egyptian historian recorded that their glorious leader and his army had a great victory over the Hittites. It was only after the Hittite language was finally translated that it was discovered that the Hittites actually had won the battle.
This tradition has carried on to the present day when Wiki-leaks reported that the US army "left out" some 110,000 Iraqi casualties in the recent Iraq war.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #37

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Carthage probably killed more Romans, much more in proportion of the total population.

Hannibal's invasion of Italy is even reflected in the archaeological record in the coin hoards: people were hoarding coins due to the devastation of the war! Never before or after such devastation was inflicted to Rome in their Italian homelands.
Mind you, there were only 3 (albeit devastating - mostly the second, of course) Punic wars, and they were between two much smaller empires. The wars between the Sassanids and Romans were many. I am pretty sure the Pyrrhic victory of 602-627 ranks as one of Rome's hardest won victories, ever. Almost matching the second Punic war, because in the 7th century Anatolia was one of the Roman heartlands as well.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #38

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
Carthage probably killed more Romans, much more in proportion of the total population.

Hannibal's invasion of Italy is even reflected in the archaeological record in the coin hoards: people were hoarding coins due to the devastation of the war! Never before or after such devastation was inflicted to Rome in their Italian homelands.
Hannibal also was in Italy alot longer than the Germans or Gauls.
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