Why did the Roman Legacy Die Out when the Chinese Survive - Page 2 - Historum

Zoopiter · June 21st, 2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenge

Something that is suspect to me in the teaching of Chinese history are the maps used in order to disseminate information. The maps used in the school systems here are highly inaccurate and are based on ethnic lines. The maps assert that since there are 56 recognized ethnic groups in China the territories that these groups came from are and have always been a part of China. This is something I truly am confused by.

No size of ancient dynasties from ancient China are based on ethnic line. Han dynasty does extent as far as modern Kyrgyzstan in the west, north Korea to the east, and northern Vietnam to the south. This have been acknowledge by international scholars. Han dynasty are in fact as large as Roman empire. During ancient time, there is no such thing as 56 recognized ethnic groups. The 56 recognized ethnic groups only appear during Communist time. Some of those 56 ethnic groups never appeared during ancient time or Han dynasty at all until later on.

Ethnic Han Chinese which consists of 1 billion population are based and comes from the Han dynasty. Han dynasty legacy still alive and strong today.

**emperor of seleucid** · June 21st, 2012, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenge

The United States has never been an empire in the true sense of the word. All possessions of The United States have rights and freedoms far beyond what "Empires" granted their outlying territories.

The United States did not become stronger than Great Britain until after World War II.

The influence that the Romans left on the world is still substantial. We are affected by it every day. It is not less significant than the influence that any "True" Chinese dynasty still has over modern day China.

I cannot agree with downplaying the significance of Rome. It still speaks loudly in western cultures to this day.

Something that is suspect to me in the teaching of Chinese history are the maps used in order to disseminate information. The maps used in the school systems here are highly inaccurate and are based on ethnic lines. The maps assert that since there are 56 recognized ethnic groups in China the territories that these groups came from are and have always been a part of China. This is something I truly am confused by.

Some maps are good, some are bad. You have to understand history to judge a map's worth. Most of these are good maps. http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/maps.html

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/ima...-Hem_100ad.jpg
http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/ima...-Hem_050bc.jpg

China was larger than Rome.

I'm not saying Romans were weak, I'm saying that they don't exist as a political or cultural entity anymore.

Your telling me that Britain was stronger than the US during WWII. First of all, size doesn't matter especial since most of the Britain lands were sh it. America had a much greater economy. They were out manufacturing the British in weapons throughout the war. Britain couldn't even defeat Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan while the U.S. were easily winning wars of attrition. USSR was even stronger than Britain by the middle of the war.

Delenda est Roma · June 21st, 2012, 06:16 AM

The Americans were larger than Britain at the time? Im pretty sure stronger.

PubliusBassus · June 21st, 2012, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emperor of seleucid

The changing of the language to Greek completes this process. In the end, their legacy only remains through their influences on the once Roman territories.

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I couldn't disagree more. Italian, Spanish (2nd most-spoken language in the world), French, Portugese, and to a certain extent English, are all derived from Latin. So the language of the Roman Empire has had a dramatic impact on the most commonly spoken languages of today.

Second, the Roman legacy is massive. Roman art heavily influenced Renaissance art, which more or less set the standard for art worldwide ever since. Roman law still serves as the basis for European law. The largest religion in the world has its headquarters in Rome based on its adoption as the official state religion by Rome. Right now, the most powerful country in the world is governed by a Senate that meets on Capitol Hill in a capital dominated by Romanesque architecture. That's just a small sample - much more can be said about Rome's enduring legacy.

**emperor of seleucid** · June 21st, 2012, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PubliusBassus

I couldn't disagree more. Italian, Spanish (2nd most-spoken language in the world), French, Portugese, and to a certain extent English, are all derived from Latin. So the language of the Roman Empire has had a dramatic impact on the most commonly spoken languages of today.

Second, the Roman legacy is massive. Roman art heavily influenced Renaissance art, which more or less set the standard for art worldwide ever since. Roman law still serves as the basis for European law. The largest religion in the world has its headquarters in Rome based on its adoption as the official state religion by Rome. Right now, the most powerful country in the world is governed by a Senate that meets on Capitol Hill in a capital dominated by Romanesque architecture. That's just a small sample - much more can be said about Rome's enduring legacy.

I'll say this again. These are only influences. Their existence as a people are gone.

The English think of themselves as English. The French think of themselves as French. They have Roman influences, but they're not Rome's legacy. Rome's own people are longer here. Rome has been assimilated

PubliusBassus · June 21st, 2012, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emperor of seleucid

I'll say this again. These are only influences. Their existence as a people are gone.

The English think of themselves as English. The French think of themselves as French. They have Roman influences, but they're not Rome's legacy. Rome's own people are longer here. Rome has been assimilated

First of all, the definition of legacy from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "something transmitted or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past." By that definition those things I listed above are very much part of Roman legacy.

Plus, the Chinese nation of today is not the same as the "Chinese" Empires of the past. In fact, in daily life China has been far more influenced by the West - and therefore by Rome - than their own empire!

Zoopiter · June 21st, 2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PubliusBassus

First of all, the definition of legacy from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "something transmitted or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past." By that definition those things I listed above are very much part of Roman legacy.

The title of this thread and it's actual content is definitely misleading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PubliusBassus

Plus, the Chinese nation of today is not the same as the "Chinese" Empires of the past.

This logic pretty much apply to every single nations including Roman, Greece, Macedonia and whichever European countries.

Quote:

In fact, in daily life China has been far more influenced by the West - and therefore by Rome - than their own empire!

There are hardly any Roman influence found in China.

You might want to learn more about Sinosphere to understand ancient China influence on its neighbouring countries to understand more on ancient China legacy and how ancient China legacy is much stronger than Roman legacy in China and east asia.

I'm not going to bother myself mention anything about which is better between Roman and Han. I'm not taking the Han or Roman side or any other members here but what you said here about China is totally off and it's pretty obvious some people are trying to downplay ancient China influence and over exaggerated Roman influence. If you mean Roman influence in western countries, I agree it's huge but in east asia, definitely no.

Caracalla · June 21st, 2012, 07:25 AM

I think somebody misunderstands the concept of legacy. As for China being an empire: the definition of empire according to my dictionary is a group of nations or people ruled over by an emperor. So, by that definition China was an empire since it has had emperors.

As far as legacy is concerned I like Chinese food, but I can't think of anything else China (besides cheap toys) - in it's long and varied history - has passed down to me. Rome, on the other hand... well we could always drag out the Monty Python sketch once more.

No one ever says "What have the Chinese ever done for us?"

jttwong · June 21st, 2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caracalla

I think somebody misunderstands the concept of legacy. As for China being an empire: the definition of empire according to my dictionary is a group of nations or people ruled over by an emperor. So, by that definition China was an empire since it has had emperors.

As far as legacy is concerned I like Chinese food, but I can't think of anything else China (besides cheap toys) - in it's long and varied history - has passed down to me. Rome, on the other hand... well we could always drag out the Monty Python sketch once more.

No one ever says "What have the Chinese ever done for us?"

China invented gunpowder, paper, printing & the magnetic compass.

On another note, the Chinese Empire had traditionally 1 characteristic in common - the control of the Chinese proper (which excludes inner mongolia, xinjiang, tibet & the 3 dong bei provinces). since 1 group of ppl essentially controlled it for 2200 yrs starting from the Qin dynasty to contemporary china, its legacy is very strong. Even during the rule of the Mongolian Yuan or Manchurian Qing dynasties (as well as other minor states that were formed by foreigners), the ruling elite conformed to Chinese customs to consolidate their rule.

**Guaporense** · June 21st, 2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delenda est Roma

I agree. Romans still exist and have had a substantial impact on all western. Culture.

Fundamentally, we ARE ALL ROMANS!

The whole Western world evolved from the Roman Empire and today the whole world is westernized, therefore, the whole world is Romanized or being Romanized right now.

So, Roman culture is actually perhaps the ONLY existing culture in the world right now.

The author of the threat is only showing his lack of basic knowledge of history.