Roman Naval Warfare - Page 5 - Historum

**Mangekyou** · June 26th, 2012, 03:18 PM

I think the one thing that leads me more to this than the Greek idea, is because the ship was supposedly a quinquereme and the Greek city states used triremes, which were the standard vessels of Greek warfare.

Delenda est Roma · June 26th, 2012, 03:38 PM

This is not true in entireity. Syracue used all the way up to sixers. Triremes stopped being the mainstat in the early 200's BC. They were of course still used and by the lesser Greek states en masse.

**Mangekyou** · June 26th, 2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delenda est Roma

This is not true in entireity. Syracue used all the way up to sixers. Triremes stopped being the mainstat in the early 200's BC. They were of course still used and by the lesser Greek states en masse.

The Syracusians invented the Hexareme (sixes) as they did the Quinquereme (fives) when they were fighting the Carthaginians, so id be surprised if they never had those ships available en mass.

The Quinqueremes were used en mass by the Carthaginians and 100 of those were made early on by the Romans, as noted by Polybius. This is why its easier to lean towards that than the Greek ships.

Trireme was still the standard warship that Greeks used, I didn't say it was the only type. But seeing as the Carthaginians used Quinqueremes en mass, and the findings from the museum, its easier to lean towards this.

Delenda est Roma · June 26th, 2012, 04:09 PM

Technically Syracuse was a greek city in culture. Rome couldve gotten a ship or ship builders from Hiero once he was their vassal. Fits the timeline.

**Mangekyou** · June 26th, 2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delenda est Roma

Technically Syracuse was a greek city in culture. Rome couldve gotten a ship or ship builders from Hiero once he was their vassal. Fits the timeline.

True.

Ill leave with this as my last post of the night:

Quote:

Based on iconographic evidence from coins, Morrison and Coates have determined that the Punic triremes in the 5th and early 4th centuries BC were largely similar to their Greek counterparts, most likely including an outrigger

- Coates (2004) pg 137

This follows your theory right?

Quote:

From the mid-4th century however, at about the time the quinquereme was introduced in Phoenicia, there is evidence of ships without outriggers. This would have necessitated a different oar arrangement, with the middle level placed more inwards, as well as a different construction of the hull, with side-decks attached to it. From the middle of the 3rd century BC onwards, Carthaginian "fives" display a separate "oar box" that contained the rowers and that was attached to the main hull. This development of the earlier model entailed further modifications, meaning that the rowers would be located above deck, and essentially on the same level.

- Coates (2004) pg 129 - 130
- Coates and Morrison pg - 259-260 and 270-272

Note: John Coates is the founder of the trireme trust and along with Morrison is a notable expert on the Greek Trireme.

This is a preview of their work below. Its chapter 13 (which sadly you cant see on the preview, but its there) which is where the excerpt above comes from.

The Athenian Trireme: The History and Reconstruction of an Ancient Greek Warship - John S. Morrison, John F. Coates, N. B. Rankov - Google Books

However this leads more to mine, as this is what the Romans built, without the outriggers.

Good night!

Delenda est Roma · June 26th, 2012, 04:46 PM

Night good theory.

Delenda est Roma · June 28th, 2012, 09:16 AM

I agree on the mercenary marines but im not aure of merc rowers. I admit it is possible though.