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Old November 13th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post
...I read everything and this is evident from all my posting on this forum. Save me however from this Pan-Slavism BS.
So you succeeded to read all text on the site of Russian science and site of ancient Russian history for 30 min.. Bravo, that will be difficult (or imposible) even for me, as Slav.

So according you Russian science is irrelevant, pan Slavism BC is foolishness but pan-Hellenism is OK. So Slavic language not existed BC and suddenly after VI AD he come from nowhere and fullfield EU. Bre-bre Something like Sci-fi and alians, Slavic language come from Mars
Midi, what is important here? You’ll have to understand that there are people who think different than you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Midas View Post

On the other hand, I can support everything I have said here with my own words and not by parroting others. On top of that, whatever I have said on this thread has to do with languages I do actually read, unlike you, who doesn't know where to look when someone tells you χούρα.

People call that quote, but you as Greek call it parroting, bre-bre. That is your problem, your posts are bla-bla and you see only academicians you want to see, what about others?
Do you know what you’ll have to do for someone to tell you “na zdravje”? Now ask all Slavs on this forum.

So, I’ll repeat just one part of my post from here
http://www.historum.com/ancient-hist...?postcount=128

Античная Эллада была, мягко говоря, интеллектуальным нахлебником славян, но, называя их скифами и варварами, тщательно это скрывала. Е.И.Классен пишет: "Главное племя Мизии и Македонии состояло из славян. Страна их называлась Славинею. Самыми же первыми поселенцами этой страны были пеласги, которые, по несомненным доводам г.Черткова в его исследовании пеласго-фракийских племен, оказались также славянами.

Rough translate:
Ancient Hellas, at least to say, was an intellectual idler of the Slavs, but by calling them barbarians and Scythians that was carefully hidden. E.I.Klassen writes: "The main tribe of Moesia and Macedonia consisted of Slavs. Their land was called Slavinia. First settlers of this land were Pelasgians, who, without any doubt according arguments in the study of Mr. Chertkova for Pelasgian-Thracian tribes, were Slavs, too .

Last edited by bilbil; November 13th, 2012 at 02:30 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #132
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Here are more links for Russian history and I’ll translate just part of it, for the rest you can read it or use translator. And midi, please, read it first.


Название Славян существует с давних времен. Главное племя Мизии и Македонии состояло из Славян. Страна их называлась Славиниею. Самыми же первыми поселенцами этой страны были Пеласги, которые по несомненным доводам г. Черткова, в исследовании Пеласго-Фракийских племен, оказались также Славянами.
Дальнейшим подтверждением того, что Македонцы действительно были Славяне, пусть послужит следующее:по падении Македонского царства часть Македонцев,около 320 года до Р. X., переселилась к Балтийскомуморю и основала свои новые жилища под названием Бодричей, сохранивших до самого падения своего герб Александра Македонского, изображающий буцефала и грифа. А вскоре после того одна часть их снова переселилась на Ильмень и Ловать.
Македонцы имели, кажется, достаточный повод назваться славными.
Rough translate:
Name Slavs existed since ancient times. The main tribes of Moesia and Macedonia consisted of Slavs. Their country was called Slavinia. First settlers of this country were Pelasgians, which without any doubt according the arguments of Chertkov in his study for Pelasgi-Thracian tribes, were also Slavs.
Further confirmation that the Macedonians were actually Slavs, will show following: After the fall of the kingdom of Macedon, part of the Macedonians about 320 BC., moved to Baltiyskomumoryu and established their new home called Bodrichey who until their fall had presrved amblem (Coat of arms) of Alexander of Macedon, who show Bukefal and Griffin …….


На бой они выходили преимущественно пешие; вооружение у них было славянское. Это подтверждается всеми древними историками; следовательно, Фракийцы должны были быть Славяне. Но теперь, имея выводы Apendini о том, что Фракийцы и Македоняне говорили славянским языком,и подробнейшие выводы Г. Черткова о Пеласго-Фракийском племени, мы убеждаемся несомненно, что Фракийцы были славяне, следовательно, и Трояне также..
Rough translate:
They went to fight primarily on foot, weapons they had was Slavic.This is confirmed by all the ancient historians, therefore, the Thracians had to be Slavs. But now, with the findings of Appendini that Thracians and Macedonians spoke Slavic language, and detailed findings of G. Chertkov for Pelasgi-Thracian tribes, we see clearly that the Thracians were Slavs, therefore, and Trojans as well .

Alexandr Dmitrievich Chertkov (19.VI.1789 - 10.XI.1858) – Russian archaeologist and historian

source
http://www.newchron.narod.ru/texts/klassen.html

On this sites there are good info too:
http://www.rus-sky.com/history/libra...sv.htm#tw_five
http://rustimes.com/blog/post_1269130853.html
http://rusiznachalnaya.mypage.ru/o-s...svo_-_ot_.html


I found something connected with Pelasgians and Thracians and I'll put it in the thread for Thracians, link
http://www.historum.com/ancient-hist...?postcount=421

Last edited by bilbil; November 13th, 2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #133

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
So you succeeded to read all text on the site of Russian science and site of ancient Russian history for 30 min.. Bravo, that will be difficult (or imposible) even for me, as Slav.
That was not Russian science first of all. Do you want to know what a Russian scientist is? Here you go: Prof.dr. A. (Sasha) Lubotsky - LUCL Members F-L - Faculty of Humanities

One doing ad hominems claiming things as a lunatic is not a scientist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
So according you Russian science is irrelevant, pan Slavism BC is foolishness but pan-Hellenism is OK.
First of all don't use words you don't know. First, I never quoted any Greek author here.

Second...Pan-Hellenism does not have the same meaning like Pan-Slavism. The term was established back in the 16th cent B.C according to this inscription: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscrip...7&subregion=20

and just to make it hurt a bit more it was a term used in Macedon too...Taste this: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscrip...4&subregion=11

So, if you will ever understand, it is not about making everything Greek as you might think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
So Slavic language not existed BC and suddenly after VI AD he come from nowhere and fullfield EU. Bre-bre Something like Sci-fi and alians, Slavic language come from Mars
Midi, what is important here? You’ll have to understand that there are people who think different than you.
That is what you need to understand willwill...You want to fool yourself believing in crap. If the Slavic branch of IE languages existed that long as you believe, they would have evolved enough, that you wouldn't understand each other the same way you do now. It would be like German, English and Swedish or Greek and Armenian. Does it make sense to you now?




Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
People call that quote, but you as Greek call it parroting, bre-bre. That is your problem, your posts are bla-bla and you see only academicians you want to see, what about others?
Do you know what you’ll have to do for someone to tell you “na zdravje”? Now ask all Slavs on this forum.
Leave the ad hominems and collect your pieces here. I am not parroting anything. I am the one supporting everything I say with modern sources that are in agreement with the modern academia. You are the one who have repeatedly showed you're not carefully reading what you quote...Shall I remind you "Parallel lives of Greek and Romas"?

That example was not just an example of parroting, but the fact that you don't know the context of what you're reading.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
So, I’ll repeat just one part of my post from here
http://www.historum.com/ancient-hist...?postcount=128

Античная Эллада была, мягко говоря, интеллектуальным нахлебником славян, но, называя их скифами и варварами, тщательно это скрывала. Е.И.Классен пишет: "Главное племя Мизии и Македонии состояло из славян. Страна их называлась Славинею. Самыми же первыми поселенцами этой страны были пеласги, которые, по несомненным доводам г.Черткова в его исследовании пеласго-фракийских племен, оказались также славянами.

Rough translate:
Ancient Hellas, at least to say, was an intellectual idler of the Slavs, but by calling them barbarians and Scythians that was carefully hidden. E.I.Klassen writes: "The main tribe of Moesia and Macedonia consisted of Slavs. Their land was called Slavinia. First settlers of this land were Pelasgians, who, without any doubt according arguments in the study of Mr. Chertkova for Pelasgian-Thracian tribes, were Slavs, too .
And his evidence for them being slavic? 0

Now, I have supported that pre-Greek was an agglutinative and heavily prefixed (and suffixed) language, similar to N. Caucasian languages (and you're talking about Pan-Hellenism here ). Just an example from Linear A: a-sa-sa-ra, a-sa-sa-ra-me, ja-sa-sa-ra-me.

Do you or any of your friends know a single IE language that is agglutinative?

That question demonstrates the essence of your ignorance bilbil...

Slavic is not agglutinative, it does not have aspirated voiceless dental plossives, it does not have many of the features pre-Greek had. But what am I telling you know? Like if you even grasp what I am saying...
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #134

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Some more evidence on the Aegean - Anatolian genetic and linguistic connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. J. King, S. S. Özcan, T. Carter, E. Kalfoglu, S. Atasoy, C. Triantaphyllidis, A. Kouvatsi, A. A. Lin, C-E. T. Chow, L. A. Zhivotovsky, M. Michalodimitrakis and P. A. Underhill, - Differential Y-chromosome Anatolian Influences on the Greek and Cretan Neolithic

In this model the J2a-M410 speakers in Anatolia and Crete may have been speaking Anatolian related languages that may be reflected in the un-deciphered scripts of the 2nd millennium BC: Cretan hieroglyphic and Linear A (Finkelberg 1997,2001). Alternatively, the J2a-M410 populations may have been speaking a non-Indo-European language with affinities to the Hattic language of central Anatolia (Nichols 2007).
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #135

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And more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by V. Yanko-Hombach, Allan S. Gilbert, Nicolae Panin, Pavel Dolukhanov - The Black Sea flood question, Springer 2007

Work in progress by Peter Schrijver and Willem Vermeer finds evidence that Hattic, Minoan and the autochthonous substratal language to several central European Indo-European branches share typological features such as extensive verbal prefixation and head initial word order, echoed in part in West Caucasian and possibly representing the language type of the first Neolithic farmers.
Actually, it is not difficult to do the math...The neolithic farmer invasion to Greece was massive. They came from the Anatolian plateau. What shall we expect?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #136

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I wonder if I was the only person to be surprised that this thread isn`t about the Pelagians ( >_< )
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by apophaticlogos View Post
I wonder if I was the only person to be surprised that this thread isn`t about the Pelagians ( >_< )
What do you mean?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 04:47 AM   #138

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I mean before I read the thread, I thought the original poster had made a typo when spelling `The Pelagians` in the subject line...
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Old November 17th, 2012, 05:36 AM   #139

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Ah, now I get it...Hard to see the missing S there.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #140

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Midas is this substatum of non Indo-European words in modern Greek related to any known language?
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