Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 27th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #11

ib-issi's Avatar
>>Its Just Passing Time<<
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: just sitting here
Posts: 3,005

If you are going to invent a language you are going to have your hieroglyph starting with the same sound as the letter you want to portray , if owl is m , then they did not call it an owl , what was the ancient egyptian for owl , and did it start with the m sound ? if not it is probably wrong , or is it a kestrel instead of an owl , and what did they call a kestrel ? the water sign looks like it has waves so was probably the sea , did the phoenicians call the sea mem ?

the sign for samech looks very much like the 2nd sign underneath it for he ,but the first looks like hey ,samech is shamesh , which is the sun, so you would expect this letter to correspond to the sound of their word for sun,

Kaph looks in both like a hand held up in the sign of friendship , or peace, did they have a word for hand , peace , or friend that began with the sound k
ib-issi is offline  
Remove Ads
Old September 27th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #12
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2012
From: Northern part of European lowland
Posts: 1,179

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa View Post
I wonder what about all the many other scripts that show little resemblance to being a part of a chain stretching to ancient Egypt. What about the Germanic runes, Indian sub-continent scripts, Central Asian scripts, Georgian, Armenian and others.
Though not at all any runologist I can hardly see runes could have developed completely independent of some alfabet, most likely the latin. There is too many similarities it could be any "accident". Many runes has similarities with "corresponding" latin letters, and even the numbers indicate that. Even the time of the first known runes seems to fit well with a "roman inspired" origin - about 150 CE - when the roman emperors were most powerful. Could perhaps some litterate (in latin - or greek) mercenaries in the roman army have decided to make their own version adapted to their first language?
Fantasus is offline  
Old September 27th, 2012, 05:48 AM   #13

Barbarossa's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: Iudaea
Posts: 631

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasus View Post
Though not at all any runologist I can hardly see runes could have developed completely independent of some alfabet, most likely the latin. There is too many similarities it could be any "accident". Many runes has similarities with "corresponding" latin letters, and even the numbers indicate that. Even the time of the first known runes seems to fit well with a "roman inspired" origin - about 150 CE - when the roman emperors were most powerful. Could perhaps some litterate (in latin - or greek) mercenaries in the roman army have decided to make their own version adapted to their first language?
I too have noticed it, Germanic runes do look very similar. I read somewhere (most likely in Wikipedia) that the Raetic tribes living in the Alpine regions of Northern Italy adopted the Etruscan alphabet (burrowed from the Greek in the 7th century BCE), and in turn some East Germanic tribes living in North Illyria burrowed from the Raetic alphabet in the 2nd century BCE. As time passed other Germanic tribes had been influenced by the Etruscan-Raetic-North Illyrian inscriptions stumbled upon along the Danube and the earliest runes were constructed from those influences.

The Runes definitely were inspired and influenced by some of the Etruscan derived alphabets of the Alpine and Trans-Alpine regions. Though it's not a complete letter by letter rendition.

Also the Devanagari script of India was derived from Gupta script, itself derived from Brahmi script, which was influenced by several Iranian scripts that were direct descendants of the Aramaic alphabet.
Barbarossa is offline  
Old November 10th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #14

KabukiSan's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 128

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
You are wrong about Armenian writing. It was delevoped from Greek writing, and so ultimately derived from the Phoenician writing, since Greek writing developed from Phoenician.

Armenian alphabet, language and pronunciation

In the case of Georgian alphabet, it is not as clear how much was derived from existing Greek and other alphabets.

Georgian alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are a number of independenty developed writing systems, but they are not alphabets.
Right, the Armenian alphabet was primarily modeled after Greek, as you can see from the order in which the letters are presented (as well as the shapes). Georgian was also influenced by Greek, since the Armenian Saint Mesrob Mashtots played a role in creating the Georgian script after Armenian. Throughout the centuries, handwriting styles changed, and now the Georgians have use a more distinct alphabet, which is equivalent to cursive. All three alphabets in the Caucasus looked similar, the Armenian, the Georgian, and Caucasian Albanian. All these alphabets were derived primarily from Greek as well as from Avastan Persian languages. All are said to be created by Mesrob.
KabukiSan is offline  
Old November 10th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #15

Von Ranke's Avatar
Sir! I have a plan!
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Thistleland
Posts: 4,558

The alphabet is easily explained and easily understood if one listens to the three wise men. Americans of course :

Von Ranke is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #16

Konstantinos's Avatar
Academician
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Athens, Greece
Posts: 69

Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC

Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC

Click the image to open in full size.
Konstantinos is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #17

Midas's Avatar
Γορδιεϝαις the Phrygian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Scandinavia, Balkans, Anatolia, Hatay
Posts: 3,494
Blog Entries: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstantinos View Post
Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC

Greek alphabet was in use at 6000 BC

Click the image to open in full size.
No, vre Konstantine... Don't believe that. Then why in the bronze age they were using Linear scripts? That thing is really wishful thinking of some.
Midas is offline  
Old November 16th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #18

apophaticlogos's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: In a quince, where the seeds are few and almost silent
Posts: 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
All the alphabets in the world, except for the Korean alphabet (Hangul), are ultimately derived from the original Semitic/Canaanite alphabet, which in turn was derived from Egyptian writing. Although the Chinese have writing, they do not have an alphabet.

The Korean alphabet as far as I know is the only alphabet in the world that does not ultimately derive from the orignal Semitic alphabet. The Korean alphabet was developed in the 15th century at the direction of the Korean King.
Actually Hangul is most likely derived from the Mongolian alphabet, from Uighur past on by Nestorian Syriac Christians. Even the Korean alphabet has it's origins in the Levant- bizarre, huh?
Hangul does have some unique features (it is the only widely used featural alphabet I know of, and it fuses Sino-syllablic representation with alphabetic phonetic representation).
apophaticlogos is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

Tags
alphabet


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speed of a script (alphabet) infestÝr Art and Cultural History 4 August 29th, 2012 01:38 PM
Origins of the Alphabet arras Ancient History 129 June 14th, 2012 07:38 PM
The Cyrillic alphabet Barbarossa Medieval and Byzantine History 30 May 2nd, 2012 03:15 PM
Where did the alphabet come from? Geus Art and Cultural History 10 May 2nd, 2012 03:14 AM
The Phoenician alphabet Niki86 Ancient History 22 December 12th, 2011 07:00 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.