Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 5th, 2012, 10:45 AM   #41

Louise C's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
From: Southeast England
Posts: 7,241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigon View Post
I'm struggling with LouiseC's idea that mutilation of one sex by the other would not happen. Firstly, it's perfectly possible for a man with a broken arm (for instance) to have sex.
Secondly, male dominated societies are known to have mutilated female children, so why wouldn't it happen the other way round? Foot binding happened in China for hundreds of years, and young girls in some cultures even today are given genital mutilations to ensure they are virgins when they get married.
Foot binding was a social custom that showed a woman was well born and did not have to labour in the fields like peasant women did. It was not done to all women, not to those who were needed to perform manual labour. What would the Amazons have done with all those useless, crippled men? How would they have supported them? And how long would the Amazons have lasted once they came up against a male army? Not very long, I would say.
Louise C is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 6th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #42
Citizen
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Hay-on-Wye, Town of Books
Posts: 40

And yet the Chinese bound the feet of women for hundreds of years, crippling them (or at least all the ones whose families wanted them to obtain a good marriage), and the Chinese people are still here.
Eigon is offline  
Old November 6th, 2012, 10:25 AM   #43

Louise C's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
From: Southeast England
Posts: 7,241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigon View Post
And yet the Chinese bound the feet of women for hundreds of years, crippling them (or at least all the ones whose families wanted them to obtain a good marriage), and the Chinese people are still here.
They were women from better off families who did not have to labour in the fields. If all Peasant women had been footbound and helpless it would have been a different matter. And Women with bound feet could presumably still perform female tasks like caring for children, spinning, weaving etc. But what helpless, crippled men could do is difficult to imagine, as is what the Amazons would hav done with them when they were not using them to have babies. It all sounds most unlikely.
Louise C is offline  
Old November 7th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #44
Scholar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 679

Not to mention that how hard would it have been for this hypothetical Amazon tribe to just tempt/buy/steal a man to do the duty with then as and when the need arose, rather than raise and then support a population of useless, crippled men?
Whyte is online now  
Old November 7th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #45

The Imperial's Avatar
MentalManja
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: 3rd rock from Sol
Posts: 4,252
Blog Entries: 1

Doesn't the legend of centaurs come from Greek/Roman experience with barbarian horsemen?
The Imperial is offline  
Old November 7th, 2012, 04:54 AM   #46

Louise C's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2011
From: Southeast England
Posts: 7,241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyte View Post
Not to mention that how hard would it have been for this hypothetical Amazon tribe to just tempt/buy/steal a man to do the duty with then as and when the need arose, rather than raise and then support a population of useless, crippled men?
That's a very good point. Why go to all that bother? they could surely find some men to have sex with, and then if they didn't want to raise any boy babies, just kill them or else give them to some tribe that did want boys.
Louise C is offline  
Old November 7th, 2012, 07:26 AM   #47
Scholar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Sweden
Posts: 817

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seisyllwg View Post
A question came to my mind, were the Amazons real? I mean the Sarmatians had warrior women but I am talking about a full on woman dominated culture in the past. Were they fact or fiction?

If they were real what was their culture like in general?
We have a story in Sweden, where remaining women back home had to fight invading Danes, when all the males were abroad in war. They did so by inviting the invaders to a feast and then finishing them off when they were drunk. The tradition states that they afterwards got equal inheritance rights in return (these rules existed up to modern times in this part of Sweden).

I could imagine a same type of situation elsewhere, if most male warriors in a tribe either were killed in battle, or at least were engaged in battle somewhere else, when the women just had to fight another approaching enemy.

Last edited by starkodder; November 7th, 2012 at 08:24 AM.
starkodder is offline  
Old November 8th, 2012, 06:11 AM   #48

johnincornwall's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Cornwall
Posts: 1,099

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salah View Post
There were tribes along the Amazon (hence its name) supposedly dominated by, or consisting exclusively of, female cannibals. Apparently they would capture men from other tribes, have said captives copulate with every member of the tribe, and then kill and eat them. Male babies would also be eaten, female babies would be brought up as the next generation of the tribe.

As with the Amazons of Classical mythology - there's no way of gauging how much of this we are supposed to believe.
This is not a local story Salah. Francisco de Orellana was the first conquistador to explore/discover this river. He went down from Peru (accidentally as he couldn't get back upstream) whilst under the command of Gonzalo Pizarro, and ended up going all the way down. When he got back to Europe he spent some months regaling the land with nonsensical tales of an encounter with these 'Amazons', mainly to big up his tales in comparison with other conquistadors, at a time of the recent civil war and derring-do between the Pizarros and Almagros in Peru, and previous almost-incredible feats elsewhere which meant that 'every conquistador had to have a good story'.

Carlos V (or I) was so impressed he renamed the river - Amazon (previously Rio Grande or Rio de Canela). But Orellanas star was to fall, he fell in disgrace and sneaked out of Sanlucar with some ships to try a colonisation of the Amazon, but it all ended in disaster, disgrace and death!
johnincornwall is offline  
Old November 8th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #49
Scholar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
From: Republic of Macedonia
Posts: 597

Pomponius Mela was Roman geographer, about 43 or 44 AD he had written ancient treatise on geography in classical Latin, De situ orbis (“A Description of the World”), also known as De chorographia. This maps are his maps and you can see where was Illyria, Thrace, Scytia, Sarmatia and of course Amazones….. His book is on the net.
MAPS:
116 World map according to Pomponius Mela (ca. 40 A.D.) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onius_Mela.jpg

Last edited by bilbil; November 8th, 2012 at 12:30 PM.
bilbil is online now  
Old November 8th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #50

Silkroad's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: USA
Posts: 158

When the Greeks came across the Scythians, whose women were, like steppe women were wont to be, more of an egalitarian footing with men than the Greeks were accustomed to, they had to categorize their experiences somehow. Herodotus in his Histories did just that. He also came up with the idea that the Persians were to effeminate in their ways to be a threat to the more somber Greeks.

Anyhow, seeing that the women of the Scythians were armed and not shy performing their share of what the Greeks considered men’s work, could ride horses, and entered into battle, said Greeks had to fit them into their perceptual framework. Et voila, the Amazons and their terrible ways were created. In order to emphasis their “unnatural” ways, the stories grew in the telling; a time honored tradition among storytellers.

Spanish explorers remembered their classic schooling well enough to name the Amazon River after the women who deviated from their own understanding of what a proper woman ought to be, since they were again, confronted with women who did not live according to their preconceived notions of propriety.

I think the Romans had the same problem with "strange" women when they met the Celts.
Silkroad is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

Tags
amazons


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amazons Nadir Ancient History 11 May 29th, 2012 12:30 AM
Where the Amazons real. ocelot2 Ancient History 9 June 7th, 2010 11:07 AM
Amazons of the Hebrides - theories? Ri Fhionngaill European History 3 April 10th, 2010 08:05 AM
Amazons. what do you think about them? Efendi War and Military History 51 September 28th, 2009 05:52 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.