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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:48 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirialax View Post
Libanius would find that rather offensive. Graeco-Roman civilization was a confederation of cities, and in the late empire in the east the three most important ones were Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople. Athens was pretty much irrelevant.
Maybe

But it seems Libanius, though Antioch born, studied in Athens....

And this tidbit

the conversion of the Empire to
Christianity Christianity
ended the city's role as a centre of pagan learning; the Emperor
Justinian_I Justinian_I
closed the schools of philosophy in AD 529. This is generally taken to mark the end of the ancient history of Athens

The Parthenon, Erechtheion and the Hephaisteion (Theseion) were converted into churches. During the period of the
Byzantine_Empire Byzantine_Empire
, Athens was a provincial town and experienced fluctuating fortunes. In the early years of Byzantine rule, many of its works of art were taken by the emperors to
Constantinople Constantinople
.

From about AD 600 the city shrank considerably, due to barbarian raids by the
Eurasian_Avars Eurasian_Avars
and
Slavs Slavs
, and it was reduced to a shadow of its former self. As the 7th century progressed, much of Greece was overrun by
Slavic_peoples Slavic_peoples
from the north, and Athens entered a period of uncertainty and insecurity. The one notable figure from this period is the Empress
Irene_of_Athens Irene_of_Athens
, a native Athenian, who seized control of the Byzantine Empire in a palace coup.

No aaaa-rabs on the horizon
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Old November 9th, 2012, 06:56 AM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
Maybe

But it seems Libanius, though Antioch born, studied in Athens....

And this tidbit

the conversion of the Empire to Christianity ended the city's role as a centre of pagan learning; the Emperor Justinian closed the schools of philosophy in AD 529. This is generally taken to mark the end of the ancient history of Athens

The Parthenon, Erechtheion and the Hephaisteion (Theseion) were converted into churches. During the period of the Byzantine Empire, Athens was a provincial town and experienced fluctuating fortunes. In the early years of Byzantine rule, many of its works of art were taken by the emperors to Constantinople.

You're right that Libanius had studied there, but Athens had ceased to be anything other than a university town since roughly the period before the Roman conquest of Greece. Even as a university town it wasn't all that important as the classical education was a dying tradition in the later empire, and particularly by the fifth and sixth centuries we begin to see that a lot of the educated elite were pursuing legal training, of which the most famous schools were in Berytus and Constantinople.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #23

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..where can I get that wallpaper?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #24

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. . .

Once again, this video is political and religious propaganda . . .
The gentleman in the video is not a historian, and Bill Warner is not his real name. His actual name is Bill French, and he apparently sees it as his mission to warn the world of the dangers of Islam. If he stuck to only the facts, that would be one thing, but it seems that in his zeal to promote his cause, he's willing to supplement known facts with his personal revision of history, done apparently without any real evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomar View Post
. . . and is not fit to be in a serious history forum........ The organization that this gentleman belongs to is known for its extreme positions
Here I disagree. Winnowing out the misinformation and distortions presented by "Dr. Warner" and discussion of how his narrative relates to mainstream history can best be accomplished by people who actually have knowledge of and interest in history.

One point of information: "Dr. Warner" doesn't just belong to the CSPI, he founded it.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #25

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We are all the heirs of Greco-Roman heritage.

However, it is true that the last part of the long process of decline of Greco-Roman civilization occurred during the Muslin invasions. However, the process began centuries earlier.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #26

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Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
We are all the heirs of Greco-Roman heritage.

However, it is true that the last part of the long process of decline of Greco-Roman civilization occurred during the Muslin invasions. However, the process began centuries earlier.
Indeed. Centuries earlier. To blame Muslim invasions would be a very uninformed claim.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
We are all the heirs of Greco-Roman heritage. However, it is true that the last part of the long process of decline of Greco-Roman civilization occurred during the Muslin invasions. However, the process began centuries earlier.
Yes, we are the heirs of the Greco-Roman civilization but not part of it. We are a separate and distinct
civilization. If we had been one and the same, we would have ended with the conquests of Islam.

A cultural heritage may be passed on from one civilization to the next, but I think it is the mainstream religions that properly define their societies and civilizations. That means that the Greco-Roman civilization died with Christianity, that is in about 350 when the majority of its citizens converted to Christianity. From then on we became social-structure-heirs of the Judaic Hebrew heritage.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #28

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Then the funniest and most ironic part is when you realize that those Muslim invaders had a very significant role in preserving classical science.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #29
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In general terms it seems we tend to agree; however
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Originally Posted by charles brough View Post
If we had been one and the same, we would have ended with the conquests of Islam.
Why?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #30

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Islam is also behind the end of the Roman kingdom and republic!
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