Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 25th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #1

Widdekind's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 918
Arthur, Mordred, 535AD catastrophe ?


According to the History Channel documentary The Universe -- When Space Changed History, the historically attested climate catastrophe, from early 536AD, lasting 18 months, when the sun shone through ashy skies for only 4 hours per day, could have been caused by a comet impact near Australia.

In any event -- whether from terrestrial volcanism, or extra-terrestrial impacts -- perhaps the sudden & ominous climate change, touted as the most severe cooling shock of the last 2000 years, set the stage for political unrest in post-Roman Britain, from which arose the rebellion of the historical Medraud (Mordred), against the historical Arthur ?
Widdekind is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 25th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #2
Archivist
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 191

There's a historical Arthur? I thought that was still uncertain.
Nego is offline  
Old November 25th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #3

Apachewarlord's Avatar
Chief idiot
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Hippy town U.S.A.!
Posts: 5,623
Blog Entries: 2

An interesting idea, though a little far fetched
Apachewarlord is offline  
Old November 25th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #4

Kirialax's Avatar
Megas Domestikos
 
Joined: Dec 2009
From: Canada
Posts: 3,584
Blog Entries: 3

The problem with this cooling event is that it does not show up in the scientific data to any great extent. Literary sources mention it from Frankia to China, but it seems to be a problem that was short lived. Harvests failed for a year and wine was sour. Maybe it played a role in the plague and maybe not - the sources for the odd weather prior to 1347/8 is much better and the link there is poorly understood. As for what caused the cooling, we don't know. The volcano idea is definitely out given the lack of acid in ice core samples from those dates, but a large meteor disintegration over water has been posited as a possibility. I wouldn't link it to Arthur - we barely know what it was or what effect it had.

I specifically recommend A. Arjava, 'The Mystery Cloud of 536 CE in Mediterranean Sources', Dumbarton Oaks Papers 59 (2005).
Kirialax is online now  
Old November 27th, 2012, 01:43 AM   #5

caldrail's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,880

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widdekind View Post
According to the History Channel documentary The Universe -- When Space Changed History, the historically attested climate catastrophe, from early 536AD, lasting 18 months, when the sun shone through ashy skies for only 4 hours per day, could have been caused by a comet impact near Australia.

In any event -- whether from terrestrial volcanism, or extra-terrestrial impacts -- perhaps the sudden & ominous climate change, touted as the most severe cooling shock of the last 2000 years, set the stage for political unrest in post-Roman Britain, from which arose the rebellion of the historical Medraud (Mordred), against the historical Arthur ?
Gildas tells us something different. Climate difficulties or not, he refers to the period after the Battle of Mons Badonicus as a peaceful one, with a hint that Arthur as an old man was living on past glory.

To suggest that a brief climate spike was the only influence in sub-Roman Britain is ridiculous - rising sea levels from the last ice age were far more influential as it motivated Saxon tribes to seek drier homes in fertile Britain. In any case, the minor kingdoms of Sub-Roman Britain were also very much influencing each others actions as politics always does.

Quote:
There's a historical Arthur? I thought that was still uncertain.
There are nine identified Arthur's in the Dark Age, all of which may have contributed to the legend to some degree.
caldrail is offline  
Old November 28th, 2012, 12:12 PM   #6

AlpinLuke's Avatar
Knight-errant
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Lago Maggiore, Italy
Posts: 9,425
Blog Entries: 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widdekind View Post
According to the History Channel documentary The Universe -- When Space Changed History, the historically attested climate catastrophe, from early 536AD, lasting 18 months, when the sun shone through ashy skies for only 4 hours per day, could have been caused by a comet impact near Australia.

In any event -- whether from terrestrial volcanism, or extra-terrestrial impacts -- perhaps the sudden & ominous climate change, touted as the most severe cooling shock of the last 2000 years, set the stage for political unrest in post-Roman Britain, from which arose the rebellion of the historical Medraud (Mordred), against the historical Arthur ?
I had occasion to hear the hypothesis that it was a giant eruption in South East Asia in those years to generate a global mass of volcanic ash covering the sky in a certain measure at planetary level. It was the explosion of Volcano Krakatoa.
AlpinLuke is online now  
Old November 28th, 2012, 12:16 PM   #7

bartieboy's Avatar
.
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 6,555
Blog Entries: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apachewarlord View Post
An interesting idea, though a little far fetched
of course it is, it's the history channel.
bartieboy is offline  
Old November 29th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #8
Archivist
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 191

Quote:
Originally Posted by caldrail View Post
Gildas tells us something different. Climate difficulties or not, he refers to the period after the Battle of Mons Badonicus as a peaceful one, with a hint that Arthur as an old man was living on past glory.

To suggest that a brief climate spike was the only influence in sub-Roman Britain is ridiculous - rising sea levels from the last ice age were far more influential as it motivated Saxon tribes to seek drier homes in fertile Britain. In any case, the minor kingdoms of Sub-Roman Britain were also very much influencing each others actions as politics always does.


There are nine identified Arthur's in the Dark Age, all of which may have contributed to the legend to some degree.
There's the 'may have contributed'......in other words there is still no identified historical Arthur then?

Also who are these nine? Everyone's seen the recent films but outside of that.
Nego is offline  
Old November 29th, 2012, 02:58 AM   #9

caldrail's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,880

It depends what you mean. The various Arthurs have left traces in the historical record and although I can't confirm it, the account in Nennius is - at least as far as I can see - an amalgam of what these men did. However, by tradition Arthur's greatest battle is Mons Badonicus which Gildas refers as having been born in the year it took place. Gildas does not credit anyone with the victory directly (some assume it was Ambrosius Aurelianus, a revered character in the 5th century who would have been a very old man if he was responsible). However, in describing the 'tyrants' of his day, Gildas does tell us that Cunoglasus was "the Bear's charioteer" as a younger man, and Arth is a known root word for 'Bear'. That's our Arthur, or at least, as much of him as we can see historically with any certainty. Not a king, but a respected war leader, and in that at least we can see agreement with the account of Nennius written two or three hundred years later.

You might like to read this....

A Significant Victory - Ancient Roman Empire Forums
caldrail is offline  
Old November 29th, 2012, 06:04 AM   #10

Hresvelgr's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,025
Blog Entries: 1

Did Mordred even exist (in legend at least) outside the late medieval romances like Le Morte d'Arthur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Widdekind View Post
According to the History Channel documentary The Universe -- When Space Changed History, the historically attested climate catastrophe, from early 536AD, lasting 18 months, when the sun shone through ashy skies for only 4 hours per day, could have been caused by a comet impact near Australia.

In any event -- whether from terrestrial volcanism, or extra-terrestrial impacts -- perhaps the sudden & ominous climate change, touted as the most severe cooling shock of the last 2000 years, set the stage for political unrest in post-Roman Britain, from which arose the rebellion of the historical Medraud (Mordred), against the historical Arthur ?
Well there's your problem.
Hresvelgr is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

Tags
535ad, arthur, catastrophe, mordred


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Xerxes-PR catastrophe Alcibiades Ancient History 16 May 10th, 2012 09:36 AM
The Epic International Geopolitical Catastrophe Game Clodius Speculative History 1 May 3rd, 2012 01:00 PM
Catastrophe of 1200 BC Guacamole4shoz Ancient History 8 March 9th, 2011 05:22 PM
LINK NIBIRU 1600 BC HISTORICAL DESCRIPTION OF NATURELL CATASTROPHE karl noreau General History 0 July 4th, 2009 06:09 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.