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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Thegn Ansgar View Post
I am Thegn Ansgar, I've been here a lot longer than you have, and it doesn't matter when we've had discussions here. The fact is that your posts do not add anything to this thread, and are mostly false. A significant number of atheist Egyptologists do believe there was a historical exodus, so your agenda describing it as fiction is quite clear as rain. You have no desire for historical truth in this regards, and you're blinded by your bias.
Any example of any such atheist Egyptologists?
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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #72
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I am Thegn Ansgar, I've been here a lot longer than you have, and it doesn't matter when we've had discussions here.
First off it does'nt matter how longer you have been on here than me, that to me does not make you anymore qualified to make sound historical argument than me.

Second my post was posted to another member who is trying to claim, despite lack of any credible evidence, that the Exodus is somehow Factual and deviod of fictionalization, which is a leap in logic and reason when the Exodus is taken into account. When I read the accounts of Ramses claiming he Single handedly destroyed the Nubian army by himself, I and any Logical person with a functioning brain knows he is adding fiction to a historical event, the same can be said about a talking Burning bush and "Angels" of death and turning the Nile into blood. If you can't see fiction I don't know what to tell you. The fact is to make the Exodus a Historical Event you have to leap and dance all over the place to make the clear myth making sound.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Thegn Ansgar View Post
The fact is that your posts do not add anything to this thread, and are mostly false.
A significant number of atheist Egyptologists do believe there was a historical exodus, so your agenda describing it as fiction is quite clear as rain. You have no desire for historical truth in this regards, and you're blinded by your bias.
first off I never said nothing took place, and secondly I am adding something to this thread, something you dont seem to like, I clearly said an "Exodus" took place and that was, according to Manetho and backed up by Evidence, was more than likely the "Expulsion" of the Hyksos, an Asiatic Cannanite people who migrated into the Delta and Lower Egypt, took control of said areas and were Driven out and subjugated by the Natives of Upper Egypt and Thebes. All of this is hinted at in the Exodus tale.

So to me the nameless Pharaoh of the Bible is either Ahmose or Tuthmose III the Pharaoh's whom would have gotten the wrath and slander of an angry defeated subject people.

The people who have no desire for historical truth are those who want so bad to prove their God rescued the Cannanite subjects of the Egyptians from the Evil nameless Pharoah, ignoring the fact that during the very time frame the Exodus is supposed to take place the Egyptians controlled Cannan and the Levant, where was God at, why send 10 Plagues and Destroy Egypt then a few years later allow them to Resubjugate the Hebrews for hundreds of years..

Last edited by Jari; December 6th, 2012 at 09:03 PM.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #73

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Originally Posted by Jari View Post
So lets get this straight, you believe that some "God"(Who's "Creation Myth and Flood Myth is plagerized Mesopotamian Paganism) Spoke from a Burning Bush and rained down 10 "plagues" against Egypt, while this very "God" was by the Exodus Myth's own words, responsible for "Hardening the heart of a nameless pharoah".
Let me get this straight. You want to prove the Bible is false or something? If so, GIVE THE ACTUAL PROOF.

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The fact is if any other Pagan people had written the Exodus you and 90% of people in this thread defending it(without proof) would either not care or like most of you do to Mesopotamian/Greek/Egyptian myths consider it a fabrication. You only donate wasted time and energy because of the influence of the Abrahamic Cults.
Fact is you have not an iota of proof, and is talking only out of your mouth with empty words.

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Fact is a simple reading of the Exodus is enough to tell its pure fiction, Id expect 2,000 yrs from now someone reading Steven King's the Langoliers would know its fiction.
Perhaps it doesn't take 2,000 years. I know your post is entirely based on evidence-less fantasy within a few hours of your posting.

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Also its clear the whole plagues part of the Exodus was simply a mockery of the Egyptian Pantheon by defeated and subjugated Bigoted bedouins. If anything the Exodus is a historical event highly fictionalized to ease the pain of a defeated and humiliated people. Manetho claims they were the defeated Hyksos, who were beaten so bad by the Egyptians their city of Avaris and even cities in the Levant were nearly wiped out of existance. So lets be honest, the closest you have to the "Exodus" is the Hyksos expulsion, no "God" leading his people against an evil pharaoh but a series of Military Masters expelling Asiatics out of the nile...and guess what we have proof of this..
No, it's not clear. If you want to convince us it's clear, you have to, let me say this again for the nth time, you need ACTUAL EVIDENCE and not empty claims.

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How can one not read the Exodus and see clear fiction and exaggeration is beyond me, but at the end of the day people have their very being and culture and religion vested in the Exodus and the bible.
Obviously it is beyond you.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #74

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Any sources?
Yes, it's from an episode of Discovery. I will try to dig it up and put on Google for you. Give me a little time. I have too many burned CDs.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:15 PM   #75
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Let me get this straight. You want to prove the Bible is false or something? If so, GIVE THE ACTUAL PROOF.
I can care less about the Bible, this discussion is not about the Bible per say but about the Exodus. Also if you don't know that the Creation Myth of the Bible and the Flood Myth have precendents in Mesopotamian Paganism(Gilgimesh etc) that is on you, do your own research.





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Originally Posted by Mandate of Heaven View Post
Fact is you have not an iota of proof, and is talking only out of your mouth with empty words.
The only one who has no proof is you, unlike you I

1) Provided Evidence the plagues were nothing but a mockery of the Egyptian Pantheon.

2) Provided Evidence that Manetho, backed up by the accounts of Ahmose son of Ebana, attributes the Exodus to the Expulsion of the Hyksos.

Now please tell me what have you provided that proves without a doubt the Exodus was fact and devoid of fiction?? Where is your proof of the Nile Turned into blood and Death Angels and Burning Bushes. Please entertain me with all the Hooping and Jumping you will have to do to justify such nonsense..




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Originally Posted by Mandate of Heaven View Post
Perhaps it doesn't take 2,000 years. I know your post is entirely based on evidence-less fantasy within a few hours of your posting.
Says the guy who believes a talking Burning Bush and turning the largest River in the world into blood is historical fact.



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Originally Posted by Mandate of Heaven View Post
No, it's not clear. If you want to convince us it's clear, you have to, let me say this again for the nth time, you need ACTUAL EVIDENCE and not empty claims.



Obviously it is beyond you.
I've provided my evidence now I will await yours, but I wont hold my breath, I already know you don't have any.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #76

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Originally Posted by Jari View Post
I can care less about the Bible, this discussion is not about the Bible per say but about the Exodus. Also if you don't know that the Creation Myth of the Bible and the Flood Myth have precendents in Mesopotamian Paganism(Gilgimesh etc) that is on you, do your own research.
Exodus is intrinsically a part of the Bible. You care about Exodus, you care about the Bible.

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The only one who has no proof is you
Why should I offer any proof when I made no claim?

Quote:

1) Provided Evidence the plagues were nothing but a mockery of the Egyptian Pantheon.
Where?

Quote:
2) Provided Evidence that Manetho, backed up by the accounts of Ahmose son of Ebana, attributes the Exodus to the Expulsion of the Hyksos.
Not remotely conclusive.

Quote:
Now please tell me what have you provided that proves without a doubt the Exodus was fact and devoid of fiction?? Where is your proof of the Nile Turned into blood and Death Angels and Burning Bushes. Please entertain me with all the Hooping and Jumping you will have to do to justify such nonsense.
Why should I when I made no such claims?

Quote:
Says the guy who believes a talking Burning Bush and turning the largest River in the world into blood is historical fact.
I eagerly await for your proof that they aren't.

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I've provided my evidence now I will await yours, but I wont hold my breath, I already know you don't have any.
True, but then I don't need any to support claims I never made.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #77
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Yes, it's from an episode of Discovery. I will try to dig it up and put on Google for you. Give me a little time. I have too many burned CDs.
As usual, any statement is as valid as the primary source it may be based on...
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #78

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Any example of any such atheist Egyptologists?
Peter James
I.J. Thorpe
Robert Morkot
Nikos Kokkinos
Pierce Furlong
David Rohl
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #79

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
As usual, any statement is as valid as the primary source it may be based on...
Trust me. It shows the original inscription carvings. It's good scholarship.
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Old December 6th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #80
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Thanks a lot.

Let us begin with Dr Kokkinos.
His main field seems to be the time of the Herodian dynasty and Jesus.

What exactly does he state about any historical Exodus?

Besides, and just for the record, how do you know that he is an atheist?
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