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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #31

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Originally Posted by Niki86 View Post
I thought Turks were always more Caucasoid than Mongoloid, and why do the modern ones look different anyway?
There are few mongolid remnant amongst Turks. Majority of Turks are people who converted to Islam, which conflict with official history of Turkey and the general opinion.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #32

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Originally Posted by Darth Roach View Post
Other Ancient Balkan people includes Greeks, btw.


Either way, if the Greeks aren't most closely related to ancient Greeks, whom else are they related to then?
I am talking about modern populations and since of course the Greeks are related to themselves it would have to be another group.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #33

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Genetically Albanians. Linguistically none. The closest living language to Greek is Armenian.
This is usually what I find whenever I research,Albanians makes sense sinec they are the only other paleo balkan population that wasnt slavicized (if that is the right word).In my area of the US (Glendale) Armenians are 70% of the population and I cant really put my thumb on any relation between our languages ,but I know next to nothing about linguistics.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #34

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Ok, lets speak with facts here cause otherwise this might be derailed.

We're talking strictly in the Balkans right?

Greeks in average have 3 major neolithic Y-DNA haplogroups, native to the Balkans:

J2a: 23%
E1b1b: 21%
G2a: 6.5%

Albanians have 3 of those major neolithic haplogroups:

J2a: 19%
E1b1b1: 27%
G2a: 1.5%

As you can see the main neolithic haplogroups that constitute almost the 50% of the genetic background of Greeks and Albanians, is similar.

If we have a look at the later, bronze age Y-DNA that came to the Balkans it looks like this (I am taking distance to the I2a haplogroups in this case, that are low anyway):

Greeks
R1a: 11.5%
R1b: 15.5%

Albanians
R1a: 9%
R1b: 16%

As you can see the percentage on those is almost equal too.

Similar data you will find both amongst Southern Italians and Western Turks.

Now, the more north you go in the Balkans, the less J2a and E1b1b you get, while the I2a is incredibly high and so does I1 in relative terms.
Thank you for the detailed answer just like what I was looking for.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:20 PM   #35

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In Balkans, every nationality is "related" to every other. Magyars and Ottomans took care of that
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #36

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It's very hard to understand Greek history, everyone come from somewhere (of course after VI ac) only Greeks are here since forever, bre, bre.
History is very hard to understand for those who never learned how to read history! You fall to that category unfortunately.

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But, Greecians according today history are Slavs too, http://www.historum.com/medieval-byz...1?postcount=13 hehe
Nobody denied slavic presence in Greece, but where's all that significant traces that make them slavs Bilbil? Is J2a and E1b1b1 characteristic of the Slavs? R1a maybe, but R1a in Greece is only 10% and it has been there since the bronze age. Even Crete that didn't suffer from a Slavic invasion has 9% R1a.


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Originally Posted by bilbil View Post
Midi, for Albanian language I already have written, anyway, this is latino-epirotian dictionary (1635 y.). Already have consulted mine Albanian friends and words in dictionary are understandable for them for more then 80%. So, Albanians=Epirotians.....
Dictionarium latino epiroticum: una cum nonnullis usitationibus loquendi ... - Franc Blanchus -
Just because a dictionary is called like that, doesn't make the equation. Do your friends understand the insciptions below? I understand 100% of it...

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscrip...rt=275&end=282


Now, bilbil, do you have anything to contribute with to Vasilios question, or are you here to spread your hate again?

Last edited by Midas; December 11th, 2012 at 10:30 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #37

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Originally Posted by Efendi View Post
Pontus seem to have longer nose, which doesnt seem to be minor difference in lenght.

But in a are like Anatolia and Balkan, Caucassia, Levant, It would be miracle to call Greeks are race.
This is my favourite subject when it comes to the neolithic populations of Anatolia VS the Indo-European Invaders such as the Hittites.

Those are supposed to be Hattians...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


While this is an office, an IE Hittite or Nessian if you like.

Click the image to open in full size.

Basically, the main haplogroups of Pontus is again J2a. Basically, in all Turkey, since it originates there. However, G2a is strong, while E1b1b1 is weakened at 10-11%. Maybe some mutation of the aforementioned groups is responsible for the characteristic nose. However, I think G2a did the job.

I will agree that Karadenizlι people, no matter if they are Greek, Turks or Laz, have a characteristic look. However, from the data we have, I don't see what causes that, since they are not much genetically different from their sourounding groups. Set a question mark on that.

Last edited by Midas; December 11th, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:58 PM   #38

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Originally Posted by Vasilios View Post
This is usually what I find whenever I research,Albanians makes sense sinec they are the only other paleo balkan population that wasnt slavicized (if that is the right word).In my area of the US (Glendale) Armenians are 70% of the population and I cant really put my thumb on any relation between our languages ,but I know next to nothing about linguistics.
Armenian and Greek separated from the same language group thousands of years ago. Proto-Armenian speakers were originally in the Balkans and moved to Anatolia in the bronze age. There, the Armenian language recieved Luwian influence, later persian and finally developed Satem characteristics. That why you don't get anything from what they say. If you read classical Armenian though, you will see that there is a relation e.g Greek φέρω Arm. berem = I bring.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 01:47 AM   #39

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Originally Posted by Vasilios View Post
This is usually what I find whenever I research,Albanians makes sense sinec they are the only other paleo balkan population that wasnt slavicized (if that is the right word).
Is Romania considered Balkans or not?
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Old December 12th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #40

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Originally Posted by Midas View Post
Nobody denied slavic presence in Greece, but where's all that significant traces that make them slavs Bilbil? Is J2a and E1b1b1 characteristic of the Slavs? R1a maybe, but R1a in Greece is only 10% and it has been there since the bronze age. Even Crete that didn't suffer from a Slavic invasion has 9% R1a.
Haplogrup is not indication of Ethnicity. There is no direct relation between ethnicity and genetics. Hungarians are great example.
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