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View Poll Results: Favorite Germanic Tribe That Invaded Rome at its Fall
Visigoths 12 13.79%
Ostrogoths 6 6.90%
Vandals 12 13.79%
Franks 17 19.54%
Suevi 12 13.79%
Alans 2 2.30%
Burgundians 2 2.30%
Huns 5 5.75%
Gepids 0 0%
Lombards 1 1.15%
Angles 4 4.60%
Saxons 6 6.90%
Jutes 0 0%
other 2 2.30%
none 6 6.90%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #21

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I chose Vandals. I think none of the other tribes went as far as they went. Also that ships incident. Genseric was impressive.
Can anyone suggest some articles etc. about Genseric?
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Old July 7th, 2013, 02:31 AM   #22

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Overall, the Batavi.

If we are talking about the later invasions after Hunnic expansions, then I would go with Visigoths.

Last edited by Mangekyou; July 7th, 2013 at 02:34 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzung View Post
I believe it is agreed upon by most historians that "Huns" are the name given to the Altaic people from the regions north of "China." They were known to ancient historians as Dingling, Dongu, Xianbei, Hsiung-nu, Murong, Tuoba, Khitan, Shiwei, Rouran and Uyghur among other names. The term "hun" casts a wide net. Even the Yenisei Kyrgyz who were of Caucasian stock were referred to as "Huns" in Soghdonia and Bactria (presumably because of their behavior): in India they were called "White Huns", or Hephtalites (the "white" didn't refer to their skin color though); in the east, these "huns" had been known as the Hoa or Hoa-tun.
Is it? I'm aware of no consensus. The Huns were a nomadic people appearing in Europe in the mid to late 300's. Writing in the 18th century de Guignes and then Gibbon first advocated the Xiongnu connection, and while thats remained the popular theory, there isn't a lot of hard evidence to back it up. For instance, why did it take the defeated Xiongnu 300 years to migrate to Europe? If there was really a connection between the Xiongnu defeat and the rise of the Huns I think we would have heard something from them sooner. Even Moses only wandered in the wilderness for 40 years

Also, the 'White Huns' were completely unrelated and seperate from the Huns that operated in Europe. I fail to see what they have to do with the origins of the Huns.

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Originally Posted by Dzung View Post
It is fair to assume that sightings of "huns" came as early as the 7th millennium: the Xinglongwa culture northeastern China, around the Inner Mongolia-Liaoning border represent a Mongolic people Circa 6200-5400, then the Zhaobaogou culture, another Neolithic culture in northeast China, found primarily in the Luan River valley in Inner Mongolia and northern Hebei represent a mongolic people circa 5400-4500. Archeologists have found many other cultural remains which fit what we would expect from ancestors of "huns", significantly we find the Okunevo Culture around Yenisei Valley Minusinsk area as people with Mongoloid features but with a (horseborne) herding culture similar to the IE Afanasievo Culture, these sites are dated circa 2000 - 1500 BCE. Then there is the Glazkov culture of the Lake Baikal area circa 18th century BCE: also racially Mongoloid. The Lake Baikal area is ground zero for what the Chinese called the "Xiongnu" who are tracable well into the first millennium CE. Even later archeologists give us the Chaodaogou culture which was a nomadic culture, in southern Siberia and Mongolia, south to Xinjiang, Gansu and Ningxia.I don't see why not.
I'm more than happy to accept that the Xiongnu were of Mongol stock. Now show me the evidence that they're the same as the Huns. Tacitus mentions a Hunnoi living around the Caspian Sea at the end of the 1st century. Coincidentally, that's exactly the same time that the Xiongnu are supposed to be getting ejected from Asia. If the Hunnoi can be identified as the Huns, it seems like we'll need to toss out the Xiongnu theory.

The real problem is that we don't know all that much about the Huns. They were a nomadic people that didn't leave a lot behind for archaeologist and though we know they spoke their own language, not enough survives to definitively say where they came from. It's just as likely that they were Turkic as Mongol, and regardless of their ethnicity, their tribal confederation quickly expanded to include Germans, Sarmatians, and other steppe peoples. To the point where saying the Huns 'originated' anywhere is a bit of a misnomer. They were a confederation of peoples, briefly brought under the rule of one man (Attila).

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BTW
I'm happy to see that you at least agree that there were Hunnic migrations.
That's a historical fact. Why wouldn't I agree with it? I just doubt they migrated as far as you think.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 08:36 AM   #24

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Voted for the Franks. The Carolingian Empire set the basis for several European countries and territories.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 11:02 PM   #25

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Another vote for the Franks.

From the early Imperial period I would pick the Cherusci.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 01:04 AM   #26

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Originally Posted by zwolf1215 View Post
The Franks. Out of all the barbarian tribes on the list they seemed like the only group that really tried to create an empire that mirrored the success of the ancients. They also set the ground work for France and the Holy Roman Empire.
I thought not only modern France, but also modern Germany. As I understand it, western Frankia, which was essentially the territories of old Gaul, became modern France, while eastern Frankia evolved into modern Germany.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 05:27 AM   #27

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I always had a particular fondness for Goths, they are the stuff of romantics, very favorable among the romanticists of the 19th century.
The Visiogoths are particularly interesting because much of their history is shrouded in the historical uncertainty of the so called "dark ages".
And since their kingdoms encompassed much of Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, the most classical Latin lands, our interpretation of the Visiogothic kingdoms era can run wild in imagination and near mythical grandeur. At least in the eyes of a 19th century scholar or nationalist.

I believe that the charm of the early medieval period (500-800 CE) has much to do with the lack of knowledge we have about this particular era.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa View Post
The Visigoths are particularly interesting because much of their history is shrouded in the historical uncertainty of the so called "dark ages".
Among all the quoted German tribes, I think the history of the Visigoths is the more well known...
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Old July 8th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #29
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I voted for the Suevi but could have voted for the Burgundians as well for both are related with the origin of my country.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #30

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Btw, sorry I listed the Huns as Germanic. My bad. I would fix it if I could edit it.
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