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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:52 PM   #1
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Hannibal, Enemy of Rome


Everyone should read about Hannibal, literally, I've only read about him for like 4 weeks, and I don't know how to explain it except that I feel like I hardly know anything about him, but have respected no one greater in history.

He fought Rome before the time of Jesus, nearly destroying it, and he couldn't even see out of one of his own eyes. Imagine being in intense battle with only half of your vision, which was said to be lost in Italy. So it's not something he had his whole life to adapt to.

He got the Roman Empire to ban the word peace, then at the end of his life (by suicide) Rome asked for his peaceful surrender.

HE was the spirit of revolution on this planet, and was alive around 200 BC. He conquered Rome without ever entering the actual city of Rome. They made statues to him in the streets while the senate "regrouped".

By all counts he had no "faith" in a religion. And I believe that is because he fought for his dead father, and knowing his family and allies supported him.

There was NEVER a plot within his own men to kill Hannibal, and he never lost an allied nation. But his own nation treated him like a regular general throughout his life, and didn't offer him enough support to do what he needed to do. But I believe they thought of him as the "peace bringer" and probably thought they had won enough of Rome and it would never stop, while also disrespecting him for not sharing their faith.

The term "I will either find a way or make one" is accredited to him.

I am in awe that there is not a massive effort to learn as much about Hannibal, as there is to find facts about Jesus.

I believe losing half his men is a testament to his will. His men followed him, because they suffered no worse than he did. And most of his major "strategies" were accidents. The plan for crossing the alps was the plan of a family member, and Hannibal was put into service when his "war lord" father died. He did it all for his family and allies. And when he did the pincer motion (his most remembered tactic) I think it was on accident. He just liked putting his brothers in the back ready for ambush, so he can be in the middle of battle and not have to worry about his family, or dying, because a relative would survive.

And he crossed the alps in 15 days, that's why so many people died. Accidents, **** falling. Rockfalls are actually very recorded on their journey, there is even a count of them getting trapped in a rock fall, but Hannibal had his men use vinegar and fire to desolve the rocks.

He was famously hated on for not taking Rome. When I read about how his dad held him over a fire and promise NEVER to be a friend of Rome, after he showed excitement in wanting to engage in an overseas (Roman) war, I literally cried (I lost a family member recently) and realized that he did what his family had been trying to do for years (took Roman culture), then stopped and believed in the people's spirit of revolution. His peers told him "You know how to acheive victory, but not how to use it." I think when he was told that, he probably thought "**** you, I did everything we ever needed."

He just expected to probably meet with his family and peers, and swap crazy stories. Then he finds out he's the leading force of the whole carthigan military.

He wasn't like Napoleon or Hitler. He was just a kid that loved his families lifestyle, which happened to be "defend our stake from Rome, or take Rome itself." But as his father had said, NEVER become a friend of Rome.

He sat like 100 miles from Rome for like 15 years ruling Italy, while the roman senate pretended to still be in charge of their people.

and he wasn't there to destroy Rome, he was there to dismantle it.

Right before his lightly armed force of 40,000 destroyed a heavily armed, heavily trained force of 90,000. He expected to die that day, but knew that some carthigans would survive since they came in last on the sides, while he ran in the middle.

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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:05 PM   #2

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My apologies FinMckinney, I did not read it completely, so I did not see that you had removed the religious subtext, which was my concern in the original thread.

Please proceed.

~O
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido View Post
My apologies FinMckinney, I did not read it completely, so I did not see that you had removed the religious subtext, which was my concern in the original thread.

Please proceed.

~O
Thank you, I should have sent a message before posting it
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:50 PM   #4
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Trolling thread?

Hannibal was no revolutionary....
Hannibal had plenty of allies betraying him...
Roman Empire didn't exist yet.
What relgion?
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:50 PM   #5
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Hannibal was the son of Hamilcar Barca (Barca translates to mean "Lightning", also known as the "Barcid Family" to historians). He had 2 bothers, Hasdrubal and Mago. As well as various brother-in-laws via many sisters, one named Hasdrubal the fair and the other was the Numidian King Naravas who had fought alongside Hannibal's father in the first Punic war.

When Hannibal was young he showed interest in over seas war, and even asked his father if he could join him on an over seas campaign. His father took him to a sacrificial chamber, lifted him above the fire, and made him promise NEVER to become a friend of Rome. He told him "I will throw you in the fire right now if you don't promise". And he promised.

While on campaign in Hispania, Hannibal's father drowned and Hannibal was recruited into the military under his brother in law who was put in command of the military upon the death of Hamilcar. In 221 BC his brother in law was assassinated, and Hannibal rose to commander of the military.

There are only 3 good historical accounts (they are fairly descriptive, but only from the Roman perspective) of Hannibal, and one is by Livy, and here is a quote:
"No sooner had he arrived...the old soldiers fancied they saw Hamilcar in his youth given back to them; the same bright look; the same fire in his eye, the same trick of countenance and features. Never was one and the same spirit more skillful to meet opposition, to obey, or to command..."

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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbsct View Post
Trolling thread?

Hannibal was no revolutionary....
Hannibal had plenty of allies betraying him...
Roman Empire didn't exist yet.
What relgion?
Hannibal was EXTREMELY revolutionary, that is why he stayed 300 miles away from Rome and still expected it to fall. He believed STRONGLY in "the will of the people to do what is right"

No ally betrayed Hannibal in an attempt to assassinate him, and no country defected or fought him at a later time.

Roman Republic, whatever.

Last edited by FinMckinney; August 22nd, 2013 at 08:54 PM.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:55 PM   #7
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BTW, I ordered a book about Hannibal. So I should have some good new info soon.

I got all this from online reading, so a book should have WAY more info. I still have more stuff from my online reading to post though. I want to get into each and every one of Hannibal's specific battles.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinMckinney View Post
Hannibal was EXTREMELY revolutionary, that is why he stayed 300 miles away from Rome and still expected it to fall. He believed STRONGLY in "the will of the people to do what is right"
Revoltionary in terms of political means? Like you said "doing what is right"

Let's compare the politics of Rome and Carthage.
-both had slavery.
-both have strong militaries.
-both were expansive.
-both did not bother blinking when it came to plundering and looting.

I don't understand how Hannibal is a "good guy" compared to Rome?

He never expected the people to bring down Rome. He was Italy plundering cities and making allies hoping to break the spirit of Rome.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 09:02 PM   #9
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Many people treat history as if Hannibal started the 2nd Punic war simply to avenge his father, but this simply is not true. Hannibal's father signed a treaty, and though Hannibal DID make moves to strengthen his people's hold on that border, by overthrowing tribes in the area, he NEVER broke the treaty.

Rome reacted to this in fear, and decided to make an alliance with a city that was south of the River. This River was the boundary which his father had signed a treaty with Rome not to cross. Rome broke the treaty, and in respect of his father Hannibal took siege on the city, and after 8 months he won. Rome asked Hannibal's government to punish him, they refused and the war had begun.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 09:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbsct View Post
Revoltionary in terms of political means? Like you said "doing what is right"

Let's compare the politics of Rome and Carthage.
-both had slavery.
-both have strong militaries.
-both were expansive.
-both did not bother blinking when it came to plundering and looting.

I don't understand how Hannibal is a "good guy" compared to Rome?

He never expected the people to bring down Rome. He was Italy plundering cities and making allies hoping to break the spirit of Rome.
Comparing Rome and Carthage has nothing to do with Hannibal as an individual.

How about this.
-Hannibal brought democracy to his people
-Hannibal gave the city states of Rome an alternative
-Your theory about both being expansive is bullshit, at the time Carthage was actually pretty weak compared to other times, and was content with its borders until Rome went south of the agreed border
-Plundering and looting is part of war, America and Europe don't blink either, and that's modern war.
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