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Old January 15th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #1
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Slavonic (Slavic) names in Greek and Roman antiquities


Hello foaks,
i was pointed out to this old article (look at the pictures bellow) as beeing one of the sources (or evidence) for existence (presence) of Slavs before 500 AD on the territory of Balkans. It looks very interesting, but i cannot say anything more about it smiply becouse i can't find this artice in full version on the internet. If someone has a link to a full version or more information about this subuject - please share it.

Georges Sotiroff, published 1969
Slavonic Names in Greek and Roman Antiquities ; Onomastica, Number 37
Author Affiliation: Canadian Inst. of Onomastic Sciences, Winnipeg (Manitoba).(BBB01964)
Author Affiliation: Ukrainian Free Academy of Sciences.(BBB01965), Journal Announcement: RIENOV196

Last edited by Solvense; January 15th, 2014 at 10:58 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2014, 10:37 PM   #2

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the full version - http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED030346.pdf
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Old January 16th, 2014, 01:11 AM   #3
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Thanks Venator

So if i uderstand this article correctly, Thracians and Scythians were some kind of protoSlavs, living in this territory (or as author puts it: lived since the dawn of history) mixed with some other peoples:

Quote:
"Yet, if all this is so, the presence of Thraco-Macedonian, Mysian, Scythian, or simply Slavonic, names in Greek and Rome antiquities becomes not a surprise, but the thing to expect. What is regrettable is that so many other names belonging to this linguistic family have been lost, or have been so altered as to require a great deal of patient study, on the part of anyone anxious to restore their original form."

Have other academic authors (after 1969) written some recensions on this article? Do they agree?
And how is this work, from G. Sotiroff viewed by scoolars today?

I'm a little bit confused
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Old January 16th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #4
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What a crock. No, linguists don't readily agree because this is "bad linguistics" tm. A lot of Slavic/Ex-Soviet countries really want to push "their" history as far back as possible. Scythian is an Indo-Iranian language, more specifically West Iranian. Thracian isn't Slavic either but belongs to a putative Thraco-Dacian isogloss. I've not made much of a study of that language, I think Midas here has but he appears to no longer post.

Jesus Christ that list is so stupid.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solvense View Post
Thanks Venator

So if i uderstand this article correctly, Thracians and Scythians were some kind of protoSlavs, living in this territory (or as author puts it: lived since the dawn of history) mixed with some other peoples:

Quote:
"Yet, if all this is so, the presence of Thraco-Macedonian, Mysian, Scythian, or simply Slavonic, names in Greek and Rome antiquities becomes not a surprise, but the thing to expect. What is regrettable is that so many other names belonging to this linguistic family have been lost, or have been so altered as to require a great deal of patient study, on the part of anyone anxious to restore their original form."

Have other academic authors (after 1969) written some recensions on this article? Do they agree?
And how is this work, from G. Sotiroff viewed by scoolars today?

I'm a little bit confused
Don'd get so concerned

The GHermans ,Celts, Slavs werethrm same...bharbarians

I didn't say it

But others did
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Old February 24th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #6
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Learn HISTORY
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Old February 25th, 2014, 07:52 AM   #7
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There's no evidence that the Romans or the Greeks have ever met the Slavs. Only the Greeks who had colonies on southern bank of the Black Sea could have met some possible ancestors of Slavic people like Venedi or Neuroi. But both peoples live most likely in territory of today Belarus and between them and the Greeks there were Scythians. Even if they have ever met, two thousand years ago the oldest Slavic names most likely didn't sound like today ones. In these times proto-slavic languge was probably similar to today Baltic languages like Lithuanian.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 05:42 AM   #8
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Very interesting thread. Slavic history usually start with:
“The obscure beginnings of the Slavs have given rise to several theories”
“ In the Balkan Peninsula they invaded the Byzantine Empire in 576 and again in 746, and they settled in the country districts of Greece.”
So, if Slavs come on Balkan in the second half of 6th cen. then how we can find Slavs on very high position, even as emperors, generals and officers in Byzantine army in 555 AD. Hmmmm Slavs attacked and Slavs defended Byzantine.



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...nian/davis.png
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...n/davis208.png
Emperor Anastasius I - Slav by birth





Click the image to open in full size.

Chibuldus, who was a Slav 533 AD



This one is veeeery interesting - brilliant Slav marshal, ANDREW CRATERUS –

Click the image to open in full size.
Hmmmm
Craterus Craterus





Vsegord, Svarun and Dobroyezd, Slavic names in 555 AD (officers in Byzantine army)

Click the image to open in full size.







This one is very interesting too.

https://archive.org/details/notebookofmediae00beazuoft
In the book, A note-book of mediaeval history, A.D. 323-A.D. 1453, Charles Raymond Beazley, 1917, on page 28 ...Justinian himself is perhaps of Slavonic origin, like (?) his uncle and predecessor, Justin, and like Belisarius, the “Africanus of New Rome”.






The Emperor Justinian, who ruled from 527 to 565, is the most important figure of this period, and some believe him to be the most important Roman emperor of all, though he wasn't exactly the most successful. A Slavonic peasant, he was adopted by his uncle, an emperor.
WYH1010 #21. Justinian & the East





А.В. Карташев: Одним из учителей Юстиниана был игумен Феофил, оставивший не сохранившуюся для нас биографию своего великого ученика. Из позднейшей ее редакции XVII в. извлекаются интересные известия, что родиной Юстина и Юстиниана было местечко Таврисион возле нынешнего Скопле (по-турецки Ускюб) в Македонии. А так как местное имя Юстиниана было «Управда» и имена других родственников его звучат так же по-славянски, то многие славяноведы и племенное происхождение родства Юстинианова ведут от славян.

Justinian was born in Taorision (today in R. Macedonia)…. The local name of Justinian was a "Upravda"(justice- EN) and the names of other relatives of his, sound Slavic also, that’s why many Slavists consider that origin of Justinian lead from the Slavs.



"Вплоть до конца XIX века пользовалась популярностью теория о славянском происхождении Юстиниана, основанная на изданном Никколо Аламанни трудом некоего аббата Теофила (Богумила) под названием Iustiniani Vita. В нём вводятся для Юстиниана и его родственников особые имена, имеющие славянское звучание. Так, отец Юстиниана, именуемый по византийским источникам Савватием, был назван Богомилом Istokus, а имя самого Юстиниана звучало как Upravda. Хотя происхождение опубликованной Аллеманом книги вызывало сомнения, теории, основанные на ней, интенсивно развивались до тех пор, пока в 1883 году Джеймс Брайс (англ.) не произвёл исследований оригинала рукописи в библиотеке дворца Барберини. В опубликованной в 1887 году статье он аргументировал точку зрения, что данный документ не представляет исторической ценности, и сам Богумил едва ли существовал." (wiki)

"Until the end of the XIX century was known theory about the Slavic origin of Justinian, published by Niccolò Alamanni, based on work of the some Theophilus ( Bogomil ) so called Iustiniani Vita. It introduced that Justinian and his relatives names sound Slavic. So , Justinian’s father by Byzantine sources Savvatii was named Bogomil Istok(us), and the name of Justinian itself sound like Upravda. ……


Very interesting opinion:
“Историки до конца XIX века считали, что Юстиниан был славянином, потом пришел Брайс и сказал, что все они - дураки.”
translate:
“Historians till the end of XIX knew Justinian as a Slav, then come Brays and said that they all are…..stupid ”
That is how end Justinian as Slav and become "everything else" except Slav.

Last edited by bilbil; February 27th, 2014 at 06:31 AM.
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:37 PM   #9
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Yes bilbil quite interesting... and there is more stuff like this, beleve me i now
... but no direct evidence or qutation
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Old March 14th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by World Focker View Post
What a crock. No, linguists don't readily agree because this is "bad linguistics" tm. A lot of Slavic/Ex-Soviet countries really want to push "their" history as far back as possible. Scythian is an Indo-Iranian language, more specifically West Iranian. Thracian isn't Slavic either but belongs to a putative Thraco-Dacian isogloss. I've not made much of a study of that language, I think Midas here has but he appears to no longer post.

Jesus Christ that list is so stupid.
Very bad linguistics I would say. I mean, I saw Gordion and started wondering if those people are aware of Indo-European languages in general. But remember, as long as such things survive in forums, there will be people looking for their 15 minutes of fame, writing them.
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