Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 15th, 2014, 11:34 AM   #1
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2014
From: Athens, Greece
Posts: 46
Blog Entries: 1
Were Germanii a Persian tribe?


Does anyone have a good explanation for the following excerpt from Herodotus' Histories?

Now, a large number of tribes go to make up the Persian race, and not all of them were convened by Cyrus and persuaded to rebel from Median rule— only those on whom all the other tribes depended, namely the Pasargadae, the Maraphians, and the Maspians. The Pasargadae are the noblest of these peoples and include the clan of the Achaemenidae, which provides Persia with its kings. The other Persian tribes are as follows: the Panthialaei, Derusiaei, and Germanii (who all work the land), and the Daï, Mardians, Dropici, and Sagartians (who are nomadic). (Herodotus Ι – 125)
Mnesiphilus is offline  
Remove Ads
Old February 15th, 2014, 12:17 PM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: USA
Posts: 2,478

Hmm maybye this goes along with the Aryan theory?
Mrbsct is offline  
Old February 15th, 2014, 01:05 PM   #3

SafavideIrani's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
From: I am a native of Rasht in Iran, but i live in Denmark.
Posts: 973

Persian? no. Iranian? yes.

Herodotus, like many other western historians, confuses the word ''Persian'' and ''Iranian''.
SafavideIrani is offline  
Old February 15th, 2014, 01:18 PM   #4

Labienus's Avatar
Peripatetic
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,465

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafavideIrani View Post
Persian? no. Iranian? yes.

Herodotus, like many other western historians, confuses the word ''Persian'' and ''Iranian''.
I think that's the logical explanation.
Labienus is offline  
Old February 15th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #5
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jun 2013
From: --
Posts: 2,361
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Were Germanii a Persian tribe?
Well, Herodotus thought so. I guess you're wondering if they were Germans. Very unlikely. Nothing more than name similarity, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbsct View Post
Hmm maybye this goes along with the Aryan theory?
You mean the Indo-European theory of common origin of speakers of IE languages, which is normally accepted. 'Aryan' is a cultural term used only to label those who speak an Iranian language, worship Iranian gods, and generally follow an Iranian lifestyle.
Kartir is offline  
Old February 15th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #6
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2013
From: porcios
Posts: 162

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnesiphilus View Post
Does anyone have a good explanation for the following excerpt from Herodotus' Histories?

Now, a large number of tribes go to make up the Persian race, and not all of them were convened by Cyrus and persuaded to rebel from Median rule— only those on whom all the other tribes depended, namely the Pasargadae, the Maraphians, and the Maspians. The Pasargadae are the noblest of these peoples and include the clan of the Achaemenidae, which provides Persia with its kings. The other Persian tribes are as follows: the Panthialaei, Derusiaei, and Germanii (who all work the land), and the Daï, Mardians, Dropici, and Sagartians (who are nomadic). (Herodotus Ι – 125)

Historical documents refer to Kerman as "Karmania" (in Ancient greek Καρμανία), "Kermania", "Germania", "Carmonia", and "Žermanya", which means bravery and combat. Geographers have recorded Kerman's ancient name as "Go'asheer" (Bardesheer).
nico kissos is offline  
Old February 15th, 2014, 03:15 PM   #7

Petyo's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Bulgaria
Posts: 832

Until recently I though the name and toponym "German" ['german]/['dʒerman] in Bulgaria were somehow connected with Germany and the Germans.
Turns out it is a Thracian word meaning "hot spring" and/or a deity connected with "heat", "draught" or "rain", etc. which later moved on in local Slavic folklore.

So, this is another possible connection. Or yet another coincidence.
Petyo is offline  
Old February 16th, 2014, 12:03 PM   #8
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2014
From: Athens, Greece
Posts: 46
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by nico kissos View Post
Historical documents refer to Kerman as "Karmania" (in Ancient greek Καρμανία), "Kermania", "Germania", "Carmonia", and "Žermanya", which means bravery and combat. Geographers have recorded Kerman's ancient name as "Go'asheer" (Bardesheer).
Thanks! This sounds reasonable.
Mnesiphilus is offline  
Old January 12th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #9
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2016
From: Tehran
Posts: 2
Germanii were indeed a Persian tribe


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnesiphilus View Post
Does anyone have a good explanation for the following excerpt from Herodotus' Histories?

Now, a large number of tribes go to make up the Persian race, and not all of them were convened by Cyrus and persuaded to rebel from Median rule— only those on whom all the other tribes depended, namely the Pasargadae, the Maraphians, and the Maspians. The Pasargadae are the noblest of these peoples and include the clan of the Achaemenidae, which provides Persia with its kings. The other Persian tribes are as follows: the Panthialaei, Derusiaei, and Germanii (who all work the land), and the Daï, Mardians, Dropici, and Sagartians (who are nomadic). (Herodotus Ι – 125)



Actually the fact that Herodotud knew the difference between different Indo-Iranian people is proven by his knowledge about the Scythians and Medes... ,

The Germanii clan were among the Persian tribes that Cyrus the great united against the Median confederation and they were Persian indeed, they still are , Germanii or Carmania is the ancient name of Kerman province and even today they are pure Persians .

Just let me remind you that Germanic languages are all derived from Persian Avestan and also the fact that Zoroaster composed the Gataha in Gothic language proves the fact that Gothic people were originally of Persian /Aryan stock .

This also explains Hitlers allance with Reza Shah (founder of the Pahlavi dynasty of Iran) , its said that even the re-naming of Persia into Iran( the land of Aryans) were suggested by Hitler himself .
PersianGirl is offline  
Old January 12th, 2016, 04:51 PM   #10
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2016
From: Tehran
Posts: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafavideIrani View Post
Persian? no. Iranian? yes.

Herodotus, like many other western historians, confuses the word ''Persian'' and ''Iranian''.


Excuse me but Mr.Safavid ( the turk) Persians were of Iranian stock, and just to remind you, Darius the great of Persia was the only one in ancient history to mentions his Aryan lineage in the Behistun inscription . " I'm a Persian , son of a Persian having Aryan lineage" .

Persians are an ancient Indo-Iranian teibe , they are even mentioned in Sanscrit and Greek mythology as Perseus the son of Zeus / Parsu ( the battle of ten kings) . Herodotus was fully aware of the lineage of the Persians and the difference between different Indo-iranian ppl, like Medes, Scythians...

So next time plz do a research before making ignorant remarks about Persian history & stick to your own Safavid ( turkic) history.
PersianGirl is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

Tags
germanii, persian, tribe



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did Greek play an important in making Old Persian to Middle Persian? SafavideIrani Middle Eastern and African History 7 October 20th, 2013 03:57 AM
Names of Median, Persian, and Parthian Rulers in OLD PERSIAN? AndreasK Ancient History 3 October 16th, 2013 04:12 PM
Non Persian Islamic conquerors spread Persian language more than pre Islamic Persia unity Middle Eastern and African History 54 September 9th, 2013 09:37 AM
Greco-Persian wars, Alexander etc - Persian perspective hist_man Ancient History 7 April 22nd, 2012 09:14 PM
Persian warfare--Use of elephants in Persian empire Iloveelephants Ancient History 5 February 5th, 2012 11:54 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.