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-   -   When did the Roman Empire fall? (http://historum.com/ancient-history/70303-when-did-roman-empire-fall.html)

bunnyman987 April 15th, 2014 02:25 PM

When did the Roman Empire fall?
 
When do you think the Roman Empire fell? Thanks.

Salah April 15th, 2014 02:41 PM

1461, when the rump-state of Trebizond came to an end.

The Imperator April 15th, 2014 05:35 PM

The "traditional" Roman Empire ended in 476 AD when Romulus Agustulus was deposed. As Salah pointed out, the last of the Roman successor states was disestablished in 1461 AD. You could also argue that the Roman Empire never really fell because its legacy is still with us today. These are all legitimate answers, but I personally prefer the first one. It provides a nice date separating Antiquity from the Middle Ages, and was the end of the more "Roman" part of the empire. The Byzantine Empire was more of a successor state than a continuance of the Roman Empire, being so different in almost every way.

Space Shark April 15th, 2014 06:28 PM

476. The Byzantine Empire was a far differently culturally and socially than the Empire Augustus founded.

Bellicose April 15th, 2014 06:58 PM

The Roman Empire was extinguished in 1453 AD, when Mehmet II conquered Constantinople. Constantinople became the Capital of the Roman empire after its completion, before the Empire was split permanently. It is silly to think that an Empire wouldn't look much different than it did 1,000 years earlier, do people expect their social and political ideology and practices to stay stagnant? Anyways, the idea of Rome being directly associated with the city had disappeared quite a bit earlier than 476 AD.

Salah April 15th, 2014 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space Shark (Post 1782380)
476. The Byzantine Empire was a far differently culturally and socially than the Empire Augustus founded.

How so, and when did this come to pass? What did the "Byzantine Empire" call itself?

Pyrrhos The Eagle April 15th, 2014 07:47 PM

Quote:

What did the "Byzantine Empire" call itself?
How much does this really tell us? Could we not find examples of states calling themselves something they are not?

Kirialax April 15th, 2014 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrrhos The Eagle (Post 1782461)
How much does this really tell us? Could we not find examples of states calling themselves something they are not?

A more useful way of looking at it is seeing how they refer to themselves in all their art and literature. They overwhelmingly call themselves Romans, and claimed to live in Romania.

However, I do think one can state the continuity case too far. An ideological continuity always existed, but the seventh century saw abrupt changes in the material structure of the state. I actually rather do like the label "Byzantine" because I don't want to say that I'm a Roman historian. People then assume that I study grand white buildings and Caesar and Hannibal, when in fact I work in the middle ages with Herakleios, Bulgars, and crusaders.

Theodoric April 15th, 2014 09:34 PM

The Roman Empire disassembled across a number of dates; and different layers of it fell at different times. To narrow it down to one date is far too simple.

In 476 only the Western Imperial court fell, the Western imperial power and culture itself actually still lived on in the Germanic successor states - especially the Ostrogoths - but also the Vandals, the Visigoths, and the Franks. In the East, the Byzantine political state lived on, but they were culturally less traditionally Roman than the Ostrogoths and Visigoths.

During the 6th century, the Byzantines annihilated much of the core of Roman civilization.

During the 7th and early 8th century, the massive Arab Empire became the dominant Empire of the region, conquering all of the Persian Empire, and most of the Roman Empire. They became the new cultural center of the western world, and ressurected the Golden Age. The Byzantines and Franks remained as remnants of the Roman Empire; however, the Arab Empire were the primary benefactors of the Roman Empire's culture and knowledge, taking its knowledge, combining it with other knowledge, and advancing forward to create the best society until probably the 20th century.

During the 8th and 9th century, the Franks remained as the last successor state in the West and ressurected the Western Imperial Court under Charlemagne, and again later as the Holy Roman Empire.

In the 13th century, the Golden Age was ended by the Mongols, and the remaining Arab Empire crumbled as new powers arose. Italy, the Holy Roman Empire, France, England, and the Rennaissance inherited the knowledge of the Arabic Golden Age. Modern Europe has remained the primary benefactor to the knowledge of the fallen Arab Empire.

The Eastern Byzantine Empire fell in 1453 to the Ottoman Turks.

The last political claiment of the Roman Empire fell August 6 1806 to Napoleon's French Empire.

The main Roman religion, Roman Catholicism, remains intact to date. That part of the Roman Empire has not fallen and is not showing any signs of falling anytime soon.

caldrail April 16th, 2014 02:38 AM

Quote:

The main Roman religion, Roman Catholicism, remains intact to date. That part of the Roman Empire has not fallen and is not showing any signs of falling anytime soon.
Agreed, and note that besides the latin language the christian churches, not just the Catholics, have in fact maintained a great many Roman pagan social customs, especially relating to marriage, as well as some Roman standards regarding conduct.


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