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Old December 6th, 2009, 02:09 AM   #11

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Re: Thracians


One mistake was made by Efendi.
Modern day region of Thrace is both in Turkey, Bulgaria and Greece.

Thracians were indo-europen, some believe they came from the Steppes, because of there worship and cult toward the horse, however this theory isn't proved.

Thracians left us a lot of archeology findings, for example the oldest golden jewellry in the World, is actually thracian gold found in the Varna nekropolis- http://www.webcrafts.bg/article.asp?id=84&lng=en
And it is thracian.
Also a number of tombs are found trough out Bulgaria, which was thracians core territory.

For example look at this beauty:

Click the image to open in full size.
Thats Panagyurishte treasure dates 4th-3rd century BC.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 07:58 AM   #12

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Re: Thracians


So when did Hellenization begin, if at all. Was it with Macedonian Hellenization and conquest, or at a different stage of development?
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Old December 6th, 2009, 08:33 AM   #13

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Re: Thracians


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Originally Posted by okamido View Post
So when did Hellenization begin, if at all. Was it with Macedonian Hellenization and conquest, or at a different stage of development?

I think they would have been Hellenized after Philip of Macedon's conquests and then in the Diadochi years, fully. But until then there had been contacts with the Greek World so I guess that the aristocracy and maybe people in trade would have spoken Greek.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 08:46 AM   #14

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Re: Thracians


By the way, ancient greeks and romans had poor opinion about Thracians, who by the way lived on tribes (until some tribes were united by Teres I, and created a powerful country the Odrysian state), they were viewed like barbarians, blood thirsty, and warlike.
However, when the colonization of the Black Sea coast by the ancient greeks began, there was conflict between some thracian tribes and greek cities.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 08:49 AM   #15

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Re: Thracians


It was always my understanding they were Indo-European, but my knowledge on this era is scant.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 08:57 AM   #16

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Re: Thracians


Quote:
Originally Posted by sturm View Post
By the way, ancient greeks and romans had poor opinion about Thracians, who by the way lived on tribes (until some tribes were united by Teres I, and created a powerful country the Odrysian state), they were viewed like barbarians, blood thirsty, and warlike.
However, when the colonization of the Black Sea coast by the ancient greeks began, there was conflict between some thracian tribes and greek cities.

The Ancient Greeks and Romans couldn't help the labelling bit could they?

There were many tribes of them yes, and they tend to remind me of the Celts sometimes cause they never achieved unity apart from exeptions as you say.

Roman and Greek labelling didn't stop them from using the Thracian cavalry though. They must have been very good fighters on horseback. Alexander used Thracians in his campaigns.

Little bit of trivia: I think that the Ancient Greeks called them butter-eaters or something like that, cause they ate butter( as opposed to olive-oil).
So I guess it was something like:
Eating Butter= Barbaric
Eating Olive-oil= Civilized/Greek World
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Old December 6th, 2009, 02:10 PM   #17

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Re: Thracians


There are so many archeological findings and historical documents that it is quite strange there is no solid and undisputed theory about the Thracians. What is undoubted is their first appearance on the Balkans millenia ago. However, it is not sure whether they have disappeared, been assimilated or still exist undre a different name. In fact there are three theories defending each of the three possible destinies.

Theory 1: The Thracians have disappeared around 3rd-5th century AD due to the physical extermination caused by furious invaders on the Balkans - the Celts, the Goths, etc.

Theory 2: The Thracians have been partially assimilated by the Romans after the Roman empire expanded on the Balkans and what left from them became part of the modern Bulgarian nation, together with the ancient Bulgars and the Slavs.

Theory 3 (autochthon theory): The names Thracians, Moesians and Bulgars refer to the same people, claiming that the Bulgars are local population, not alien from Asia.

Theory 3 is the most interesting, though it is rejected by many respected historians due to the ambiguous interpretation of some of the facts that support it. It is based on archeological findings, lexical and grammatical similarities of ancient Thracian and modern Bulgarian language, written sources of historians of the time denoting the name Bulgar on maps and in books and notes. Here are some archeological findings dated around 5c BC.

A ring found in a Thracian tomb near Ezerovo village, present day Bulgaria:

Click the image to open in full size.
The text on it is written with Greek letters and the meaning is easily deciphered through modern Bulgarian. It says: Rolistene, I, your Nerenea, smoulder down here, and you lie next to me crushed.

Vessels found in a Thracian tomb near the city of Plovdiv:
Click the image to open in full size.
The words are again written with Greek letters. The text means - made to appease/quench me.

Fragments found by K.Lehmann on the Samotraki island after WWII:
Click the image to open in full size.

The most common combination of words read on the fragments means - the day is an interpreter (soothsayer).
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Old December 6th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #18

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Re: Thracians


Wow!Very interesting post Irnik.

Thrace was a very rich land. Rich in gold and other precious metals.

I' d like to learn more about the ancient Thracians, their obscurity and the fact that there seems to be so little known about them, kind of tantalizes me. Any suggestions?Has there been any study about them, like Wilkes' "Illyrians" for example?
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Old December 6th, 2009, 11:14 PM   #19

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Re: Thracians


Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tawananna~ View Post
Roman and Greek labelling didn't stop them from using the Thracian cavalry though. They must have been very good fighters on horseback. Alexander used Thracians in his campaigns.
Of course, they were perfect fighters and also many in numbers, there problem is that they never fully united.
They made perfect gladiators, Spartacus is one of many i believe.
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Old December 7th, 2009, 04:15 AM   #20

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Re: Thracians


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Originally Posted by sturm View Post
Spartacus is one of many i believe.

Yes, he was...Some source mentions he was hellenized, so I guess at the time the Thracians had been fully Hellenized.

I am such Spartacus fan btw. Too bad that his plan went so wrong
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