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Old December 9th, 2009, 08:13 AM   #21
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Re: Thracians


I think they were Indo-European because they had red hair.

The Greeks thought of them as barbarians because the Thracians were big drinkers, and drank whiskey, whereas the Greeks drank wine, and diluted it because they thought getting drunk was uncivilized.

The Thracians got drunk before battle. This, according to Pausanias, began because of the killing of Orpheus by the Thracian women. The story went that Orpheus, being ambitious, was looking for followers. He wandered through Thrace, singing his songs to persuade the Thracian men to follow him on the path of adventure. The Thracian women plotted to kill Orpheus, to keep their men at home on the farms, but were afraid of what their husbands would do to them. So they got drunk before they killed him. Their husbands tatooed them as punishment but, ever after, got drunk themselves before battle.

I don't think they were ever Hellenized.
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Old December 9th, 2009, 09:19 AM   #22

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Re: Thracians


Let's not forget,that some roman things are from Greece - everyone knows that,but a think that a few people know (mainly bulgarians - like inheritors of he Thracians) that the Greece actually took from them (the Thracians). Like let's say they'r Gods ....
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Old January 1st, 2018, 02:52 PM   #23
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Definitely more in the Indo-European branch, the Dorians seem to be more of an Asian Minor people.
Are we thinking of two different Dorians? As far as I know, the Dorians were a Greek subgroup, and the Greeks are most definitely Indo-Europeans.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 03:02 PM   #24
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I think they would have been Hellenized after Philip of Macedon's conquests and then in the Diadochi years, fully. But until then there had been contacts with the Greek World so I guess that the aristocracy and maybe people in trade would have spoken Greek.
That's wrong, the Thracians lasted much longer than that. After Philip, there are records of Alexander fighting off Thracians, the Triballians and Geto-Dacians in particular. Alexander's successor that ruled Thrace, Lysimach, lost in a battle to the Thracians. Decebal ruled Dacia in the Common Era, centuries after the death of Philip and Diadochi. After Decebal's kingdom was fully conquered by Rome, it soon got Romanized. I'm not 100% sure of what happened to the Thracian lands south of Decebal's kingdom, but to my knowledge they were never Hellenized. They may have been Romanized as well before the Slavs entered the fray.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:52 AM   #25

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The first indo-european expansion out of the steppes around 4200-4000 BC was from the steppes, around the black sea into the Balkans. Those, who settled there were the thracians, the rest continued south into Greece and Anatolia.

On their way they destroyed the danube civilization. I have seen someone referencing the Varna gold treasure to be thracian. This is wrong. The Varna gold treasure predates the thracian indo european invasion by 500 to 1000 years.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:24 PM   #26

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Cudn't they hv been Pelasgians?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 04:00 AM   #27
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Cudn't they hv been Pelasgians?
They might be is difficult to say, there is not enough sources as far as I know, but one thing is sure they have settled all Balkans and Asia Minor not later then XV c BC. I was happy to be on a lecture of sir Colin Renfrew some time ago and he said Thracians are from the neolithic period there. If its true is really possible.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 06:15 AM   #28

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They might be is difficult to say, there is not enough sources as far as I know, but one thing is sure they have settled all Balkans and Asia Minor not later then XV c BC. I was happy to be on a lecture of sir Colin Renfrew some time ago and he said Thracians are from the neolithic period there. If its true is really possible.
Depends what you and the professor mean by thracians.
Thracian is an exonym, and everything that was in that area at any time could theoretically be labelled thracian. However the thracians that made these tombs:

Click the image to open in full size.

Thracian tomb of Kazanlak - World Heritage Site - Pictures, info and travel reports


were clearly indo europeans and therefore hardly pelasgians.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:16 AM   #29
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Depends what you and the professor mean by thracians.
Thracian is an exonym, and everything that was in that area at any time could theoretically be labelled thracian. However the thracians that made these tombs:

Click the image to open in full size.

Thracian tomb of Kazanlak - World Heritage Site - Pictures, info and travel reports


were clearly indo europeans and therefore hardly pelasgians.
The Greeks distinguished between Thracians, Illyrians, and Paeonians.

How do we know for a fact that the Pelasgians were not Indo-European?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:44 AM   #30

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The Greeks distinguished between Thracians, Illyrians, and Paeonians.

How do we know for a fact that the Pelasgians were not Indo-European?
Paeonians and Pelasgians are two different things.

Before the indo-european invasions in europe, there was a mediterranian culture, with Etruscans, Pelasgians and some other tribes like Basques.

Thucydides puts them together with the Etruscans, not with the Hellenes.
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