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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TupSum View Post
Paeonians and Pelasgians are two different things.

I'm aware. But you said that Thracian was a generic word for everyone in that area. That is not true because otherwise the Paeonians and Illyrians would have been labelled Thracian.

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Before the indo-european invasions in europe, there was a mediterranian culture, with Etruscans, Pelasgians and some other tribes like Basques.

Thucydides puts them together with the Etruscans, not with the Hellenes.
Interesting. Do you have a source on that?
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:06 AM   #32

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Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post

Interesting. Do you have a source on that?
try this:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=EDw...sgians&f=false


https://linguistics.osu.edu/herodoto...ean/pelasgians

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HarryThurston Peck, Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898): Pelasgi,(Πελασγοί). A name given to the earliest (prehistoric) inhabitants of Greece. In Homer the name applied now to a people in Asia Minor dwelling near Ilium ( Il. ii. 840), and now to people inhabiting various parts of Greece. Thus, Argos is called Pelasgian (id ii. 681), and the god worshipped at Dodona is the “Pelasgian” Zeus (id. xvi. 233). Pelasgians are also spoken of as dwelling in Crete (Odyss. xix. 177). Herodotus tells us that the earliest name that Greece bore was Πελασγία, and ascribes a Pelasgic origin to some of the Greek peoples, as the Arcadians, Athenians, Aeolians, etc. (cf. Herod.i. 146; vii. 94, Herod., 95; viii. 44). He draws a definite distinction between the Pelasgi and the Hellenes proper, as being different in both race and language (i. 56, 58). Thucydides agrees with Herodotus, and goes a step further in identifying them with the Tyrrheni. He also mentions them as found in the island of Lemnos, on which see the article Etruria, p. 625.
Tyrrheni is the ancient name of the etruscans.

Last edited by TupSum; January 3rd, 2018 at 11:11 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:20 AM   #33

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Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
I'm aware. But you said that Thracian was a generic word for everyone in that area. That is not true because otherwise the Paeonians and Illyrians would have been labelled Thracian.
I said could. Sometimes people named the actual tribal names. Like Odryssian kingdom, right? They were called Thracians, but more exactly Odryssae.

Like murikan and californian roughly.


Last edited by TupSum; January 3rd, 2018 at 11:28 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:28 AM   #34
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I said could. Sometimes people named the actual tribal names. Like Odryssian kingdom, right? There were called Thracians, but more exactly Odryssae.

Like murikan and californian roughly.

The tribal names were often named, but they were specified if those tribes were Thracian or not. For example, it was specified that the Geto-Dacians were a Thracian tribe, although linguistic evidence (different toponym suffixes) shows that this may not have been true. So while it is possible that the term Thracian was used a bit liberally, it wasn't a generic term for all non-Greek Balkanites.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:46 AM   #35

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The tribal names were often named, but they were specified if those tribes were Thracian or not. For example, it was specified that the Geto-Dacians were a Thracian tribe, although linguistic evidence (different toponym suffixes) shows that this may not have been true. So while it is possible that the term Thracian was used a bit liberally, it wasn't a generic term for all non-Greek Balkanites.

What I'm saying is that when people say (like the professor) that Thracians were pre-indoeuropean, it's misleading, because it might be partially true. Per example some people call the Varna treasure thracian, when it is clearly pre-indo european. There might have been some pre-indoeuropean tribes surviving the invasion for some time (like the pelasgians). Were they thracian? I don't know. Because thracians were also the people who made the kurgan tombs too, right? They were indo-europeans.

There was also a huge celtic invasion around 600BC. Many settled in the Balkans and were called thracians too.

I try to be consistent and call thracians only the indo-europeans, so for me pelasgians shouldn't be classified as such. It's just my opinion.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 02:47 PM   #36
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I was curious about the Thrace thing myself.. super cool flag IMO for starters.

But also I've heard that it was actually the region originally called "Europe"
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Old January 17th, 2018, 02:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
The tribal names were often named, but they were specified if those tribes were Thracian or not. For example, it was specified that the Geto-Dacians were a Thracian tribe, although linguistic evidence (different toponym suffixes) shows that this may not have been true.
This is very interestng. According https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo on page 466(10) Getae who speak language cognate with Tracian. On page 468-13 write that Dacian language is same with Getae. So Strabo wrote that Getae and Dacians spoke same language,

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Originally Posted by Dzmeka View Post
So while it is possible that the term Thracian was used a bit liberally, it wasn't a generic term for all non-Greek Balkanites.
Not only for non-Greek on Balkan. Getae were on the territory above Balkan. As thracians were described and Sarmatians to, they live to the east of the See of Azoff and along the banks of the Don.

https://books.google.mk/books?id=K_1...acians&f=false

Last edited by bilbil; January 17th, 2018 at 02:47 PM.
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