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Old October 13th, 2016, 01:55 PM   #21

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To say all, apart that he knocked at heaven's doors, I know a nut about Dylan's lyrics [but I can recognize his songs].

And a Nobel Prize should be global, not related to English speaking persons ... or are we observing an other consequence of Brexit????
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Old October 13th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by johnminnitt View Post

(I'm not saying anything about Dylan here - having grown up with his words in the '60's my evaluation is maybe too mixed up with nostalgia. Anyway I think the best songs of Leonard Cohen are maybe even better than the best Dylan - Cohen being another one recognised as a poet as well as lyricist)
I would be interested in hearing your evaluation of Dylan despite your fear that nostalgia may cloud your assessment. I agree that Cohen was a brilliant songwriter, but for me he never had the same impact as Dylan in capturing the prevailing zeitgeist of the early sixties. I was only a kid when I first heard The Times They are a Changin', but I knew it reflected something powerful and mirrored a challenge to authority that was palpable among the younger generation. Nostalgia or what?
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Old October 13th, 2016, 02:19 PM   #23

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I feel as if McDonalds has been awarded a Michelin star.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 02:21 PM   #24

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I feel as if McDonalds has been awarded a Michelin star.


Now that is harsh.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 02:45 PM   #25
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I would be interested in hearing your evaluation of Dylan despite your fear that nostalgia may cloud your assessment. I agree that Cohen was a brilliant songwriter, but for me he never had the same impact as Dylan in capturing the prevailing zeitgeist of the early sixties. I was only a kid when I first heard The Times They are a Changin', but I knew it reflected something powerful and mirrored a challenge to authority that was palpable among the younger generation. Nostalgia or what?
I think that the best of Dylan was brilliant (to many titles quoted I'll add Jokerman, Angelina, Idiot Wind), but that there's a good deal that's a lot weaker (but that's true of many poets). I agree about the zeitgeist, but Cohen's impact for me was simply the quality of the writing - the poetry.

With regard to Alpin Luke's point I partly agree, when words and music combine one usually dominates in quality. In Mozart's operas the quality of the music does indeed eclipse the words (even da Ponte's).
Dylan I reckon is the opposite. The music is generally pretty basic and so the words carry the weight, if there were a prize for music I don't think he'd have much chance of winning it
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Old October 13th, 2016, 03:07 PM   #26

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I think that the best of Dylan was brilliant (to many titles quoted I'll add Jokerman, Angelina, Idiot Wind), but that there's a good deal that's a lot weaker (but that's true of many poets). I agree about the zeitgeist, but Cohen's impact for me was simply the quality of the writing - the poetry.

With regard to Alpin Luke's point I partly agree, when words and music combine one usually dominates in quality. In Mozart's operas the quality of the music does indeed eclipse the words (even da Ponte's).
Dylan I reckon is the opposite. The music is generally pretty basic and so the words carry the weight, if there were a prize for music I don't think he'd have much chance of winning it
Thanks for that thoughtful and stimulating response. I suppose at the end of the day it all comes down to personal taste, which is always subjective, but God help us if the Nobel committee ever come up with a prize for comedy as Donald Trump would be sure to win it.
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Old October 13th, 2016, 03:26 PM   #27

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Back to the music again :

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Old October 14th, 2016, 01:12 AM   #28

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This is good I think:

https://ricochet.com/380162/roll-on-bob/
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Old October 14th, 2016, 01:38 AM   #29

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Excellent article and thanks for posting it. I particularly enjoyed this quote from the great man :

Critics say I mangle my melodies, render my songs unrecognizable. Oh, really? Let me tell you something. I was at a boxing match a few years ago seeing Floyd Mayweather fight a Puerto Rican guy. And the Puerto Rican national anthem, somebody sang it and it was beautiful. It was heartfelt and moving. After that it was time for our national anthem. And a very popular soul-singing sister was chosen to sing. She sang every note that exists, and some that don’t exist. Talk about mangling a melody. You take a one-syllable word and make it last for 15 minutes? She was doing vocal gymnastics like she was a trapeze act. But to me it was not funny.

I heard on the news this morning that it was the late Allen Ginsberg the poet who first pushed for Dylan to receive this award twenty years ago.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 02:57 AM   #30
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Pure demagogy...He is not writer at all.. he only wins because he is from USA and it is necessary to give a prize to USA... he is not John dos Passos, Hemingway.. but of course, if the Peace noble is Santos only because he wanted to surrender before Guerrillas...
If people are very happy it is only because they know Dylan because most them never had heart a word from a Literature Nobel winner...It is funny Borges never won a Noble...but Dylan yes...today nobel is a kind of anti-prize...only for mediocrities...
This year the Nobel had to go to USA... with Capote and Salter dead, if they wanted to give the Nobel to a Yankee, they could choose Roth, de Lillo, Austern or Franzen.. any of them sing.. but they write and write very well (not as Dylan.. wrote nothing... Dylan Nobel is a to give the Nobel of Peace to Adolf Hitler) and the Nobel of economic to Lenin..

If the snob and ignorant want to know what´s LITERATURE.. they should read Ismael Kadaré that he is not nobel because he is albanian... and Nobel must born in a great country as USA or who said the snobs from Sweden...
The diference between albanian Kadaré and Dylan.. easy.. Kadaré is LITERATURE... Dylan as the black days we live.. only Show, entertainment...
Ala.. Blowing in the Prize!
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