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Old October 14th, 2016, 02:20 AM   #31

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Americans have not received a disproportionate number of Nobel literature prizes, some 9 to 11 out of 113 (depending on who one defines an American), with only one or two dubious candidates among them; compared to 16 French, 10 British, 8 German, 6 Spanish); and it was not 'necessary' for them to give a prize to an American this year. Obviously it was silly it give the prize to Dylan, but there are not many obviously bad choices on the list. There is an obvious bias in favour of people writing in Western European languages, and a liberal/leftish bias which has led some worthy candidates to be passed over, but that is quite another matter from saying that the prize has not been based on proper literary values.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 02:32 AM   #32

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Pure demagogy...He is not writer at all.. he only wins because he is from USA and it is necessary to give a prize to USA... he is not John dos Passos, Hemingway.. but of course, if the Peace noble is Santos only because he wanted to surrender before Guerrillas...
If people are very happy it is only because they know Dylan because most them never had heart a word from a Literature Nobel winner...It is funny Borges never won a Noble...but Dylan yes...today nobel is a kind of anti-prize...only for mediocrities...
This year the Nobel had to go to USA... with Capote and Salter dead, if they wanted to give the Nobel to a Yankee, they could choose Roth, de Lillo, Austern or Franzen.. any of them sing.. but they write and write very well (not as Dylan.. wrote nothing... Dylan Nobel is a to give the Nobel of Peace to Adolf Hitler) and the Nobel of economic to Lenin..

If the snob and ignorant want to know what´s LITERATURE.. they should read Ismael Kadaré that he is not nobel because he is albanian... and Nobel must born in a great country as USA or who said the snobs from Sweden...
The diference between albanian Kadaré and Dylan.. easy.. Kadaré is LITERATURE... Dylan as the black days we live.. only Show, entertainment...
Ala.. Blowing in the Prize!


While I fully take on board your critique of the Nobel institution and its obvious failings, I think comparing Bob Dylan to Hitler and labelling him as a mediocrity is just a wee bit over the top.

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Old October 14th, 2016, 02:34 AM   #33

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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
Americans have not received a disproportionate number of Nobel literature prizes, some 9 to 11 out of 113 (depending on who one defines an American), with only one or two dubious candidates among them; compared to 16 French, 10 British, 8 German, 6 Spanish); and it was not 'necessary' for them to give a prize to an American this year. Obviously it was silly it give the prize to Dylan, but there are not many obviously bad choices on the list. There is an obvious bias in favour of people writing in Western European languages, and a liberal/leftish bias which has led some worthy candidates to be passed over, but that is quite another matter from saying that the prize has not been based on proper literary values.
Actually this is not exactly what I contest in this case: the value of Bob Dylan in the world of music is there and you can like his songs or not, but he has been saying more than something in the history of recent music.

But his identity is in the world of music, not of literature. Bob Dylan is not a writer who also sings. Bod Dylan is a musician who writes the lyrics of his songs.

Bob Dylan has written books [2 in the 70's and one in 2004, as for I have noted on the net], but sure this doesn't make him a Nobel writer.

And the motivations of the Nobel Prize are not connected with those works ...

Quote:
Prize motivation: "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition"
[https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_pri...lan-facts.html]

So, what's annoys me is this extension of the literature Nobel Prize. The Nobel Foundation had to introduce a different Nobel Prize: for the music.

Otherwise this extension could mean that any field where texts and / or lyrics are present can be "embedded" in the literature Nobel Prize.

Why not pure actors? Mere journalists? Common politicians?

But not because they produce literature, but because they use texts and or lyrics ...

Unfortunately this is not the first "extension" of the proper field of a Nobel Prize.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 03:59 AM   #34

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I was replying to martin's post on the previous page. I agree with you, this was a category error, to criticize it does not oblige one to take any position at all on the qualities of Dylan as a singer/songwriter.

" On Thursday Per Wastberg, chair of the Nobel literature committee, said he is "probably the greatest living poet"." This is quite incredibly silly, and people will look back on it with embarrassment in the future. It is like saying that the Beatles were the greatest song-writers since Schubert, as has also been said by apparently sane and serious-minded people.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 05:30 AM   #35

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I was replying to martin's post on the previous page. I agree with you, this was a category error, to criticize it does not oblige one to take any position at all on the qualities of Dylan as a singer/songwriter.

" On Thursday Per Wastberg, chair of the Nobel literature committee, said he is "probably the greatest living poet"." This is quite incredibly silly, and people will look back on it with embarrassment in the future. It is like saying that the Beatles were the greatest song-writers since Schubert, as has also been said by apparently sane and serious-minded people.
I think we are all mostly agreed that the Nobel literary prize is hardly the proper vehicle to recognise Dylan's immense contribution to music and popular culture. The correct institution to laud his undoubted genius as a singer/songwriter is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame into which he was induced in 1989. Bruce Springsteen, who made the introductory speech, rightly pointed out that..."He invented a new way a pop singer could sound, broke through the limitations of what a recording artist could achieve, and changed the face of rock and roll forever." On top of this Dylan was also made a Kennedy Center Honoree in 1997 which is an award given to American men and women who have made outstanding contributions to the Arts. All in all Bob already has his place in history guaranteed and his legacy ensured without a Nobel Literature prize which is not only inappropriate, but a controversial distraction.

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Old October 14th, 2016, 06:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
Americans have not received a disproportionate number of Nobel literature prizes, some 9 to 11 out of 113 (depending on who one defines an American), with only one or two dubious candidates among them; compared to 16 French, 10 British, 8 German, 6 Spanish); and it was not 'necessary' for them to give a prize to an American this year. Obviously it was silly it give the prize to Dylan, but there are not many obviously bad choices on the list. There is an obvious bias in favour of people writing in Western European languages, and a liberal/leftish bias which has led some worthy candidates to be passed over, but that is quite another matter from saying that the prize has not been based on proper literary values.
It is not possible to say better. +1

in favour of people writing in Western European languages, and a liberal/leftish bias

The only reason because Dylan is Nobel...
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Old October 14th, 2016, 06:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Von Ranke View Post
I think we are all mostly agreed that the Nobel literary prize is hardly the proper vehicle to recognise Dylan's immense contribution to music and popular culture. The correct institution to laud his undoubted genius as a singer/songwriter is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame into which he was induced in 1989. Bruce Springsteen, who made the introductory speech, rightly pointed out that..."He invented a new way a pop singer could sound, broke through the limitations of what a recording artist could achieve, and changed the face of rock and roll forever." On top of this Dylan was also made a Kennedy Center Honoree in 1997 which is an award given to American men and women who have made outstanding contributions to the Arts. All in all Bob already has his place in history guaranteed and his legacy ensured without a Nobel Literature prize which is not only inappropriate, but a controversial distraction.

I have nothing against Dylan as Music man.. but he is not a right Nobel in literature... not at all... there are great american writers.. but not Dylan...why not Don DeLillo?
To think Dylan is as John Doss Passo, Hemingway, Capote, Keraouac, Burroughs.. is an insult to Nobel and to the american writers... he is a singer..as Cohen or Jim Morrison or Ringo Star... or Fr Davies.. etc etc

Why not a noble for Kadaré, maybe somebody in this forum can write Dylan is better writer than Kadaré...No, so why? Easy, Kadaré born in Gjirokastër and the Swedish Academy don´t like people from Albania, they prefer people frrom Duluth, Minnesota...Or somebody could to say Dylan is better writer than Kadaré or DeLillo...
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Old October 14th, 2016, 06:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Ranke View Post
I think we are all mostly agreed that the Nobel literary prize is hardly the proper vehicle to recognise Dylan's immense contribution to music and popular culture. The correct institution to laud his undoubted genius as a singer/songwriter is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame into which he was induced in 1989.


Fully agree with you. Right! I like Dylan songs but I don´t like he´s nobel prize in literature... Not at all.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 08:28 AM   #39
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Apparently it was racist and sexist to give him the Nobel Prize

People Are Upset Bob Dylan, Another White Man, Won Nobel Prize For Literature | Heat Street
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Old October 14th, 2016, 09:31 AM   #40

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I like Bob Dylan's songs, but to give him a Nobel Prize for literature is about as justified as giving Obama the Nobel peace prize! Symptomatic of the committee playing to the crowd.
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