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Old October 15th, 2016, 11:05 AM   #41
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I like Bob Dylan's songs, but to give him a Nobel Prize for literature is about as justified as giving Obama the Nobel peace prize! Symptomatic of the committee playing to the crowd.
Yes, I completely agree here. He is extremely talented but in my opinion, not deserving of the noble peace prize.
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Old October 15th, 2016, 04:28 PM   #42
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He deserves it more than those silly novelists. I like Kristofferon better though.

Shakespeare was an actor and a playwrite. I am sure he was not viewed as a serious poet like Milton or Spenser at one time.

Last edited by betgo; October 15th, 2016 at 04:31 PM.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 01:26 AM   #43

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There was a rather ambiguous attitude to modern playwrights in Shakespeare's own time, but the history of his company shows that his works were appreciated, and presumably taken seriously, among educated people in the higher levels of society. In the 17th Century there was considerable Puritan disapproval of the theatre, but Shakespeare's plays were regularly performed from the Restoration onward, and his reputation as the greatest poet in the English language was firmly established by the 18th Century. I am not sure what point you are intending to make here!

By "silly novelists" I presume you are referring to authors like Thomas Mann, Andre Gide, Pär Lagerkvist, François Mauriac, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Wiliam Golding, Nahguib Mahfouz, V.S. Naipaul, Mario Vargas Llosa (all Nobel laureates)...
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Old October 16th, 2016, 03:43 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
There was a rather ambiguous attitude to modern playwrights in Shakespeare's own time, but the history of his company shows that his works were appreciated, and presumably taken seriously, among educated people in the higher levels of society. In the 17th Century there was considerable Puritan disapproval of the theatre, but Shakespeare's plays were regularly performed from the Restoration onward, and his reputation as the greatest poet in the English language was firmly established by the 18th Century. I am not sure what point you are intending to make here!

By "silly novelists" I presume you are referring to authors like Thomas Mann, Andre Gide, Pär Lagerkvist, François Mauriac, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Wiliam Golding, Nahguib Mahfouz, V.S. Naipaul, Mario Vargas Llosa (all Nobel laureates)...
My first impression was that he referred to the representatives of "pop literature", Murakami Haruki in particular, who, and rightfully so, didn't get the prize this year, either. Every year Murakami does not get the prize is a good year for literature!
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Old October 16th, 2016, 04:35 AM   #45

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Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
There was a rather ambiguous attitude to modern playwrights in Shakespeare's own time, but the history of his company shows that his works were appreciated, and presumably taken seriously, among educated people in the higher levels of society. In the 17th Century there was considerable Puritan disapproval of the theatre, but Shakespeare's plays were regularly performed from the Restoration onward, and his reputation as the greatest poet in the English language was firmly established by the 18th Century.
Talking about literary critics it is a good job Shakespeare's reputation did not depend on the observations of the diarist Samuel Pepys. Every time I read his diary I never get further than a few pages before I have to put it down due to tears of laughter blurring my eyes. This is an extract from his diary for the year 1662 just after he has given up on his resolution to stop drinking wine and attending the theatre :

Monday 29 September 1662
(Michaelmas day). This day my oaths for drinking of wine and going to plays are out, and so I do resolve to take a liberty to-day, and then to fall to them again. Up and by coach to White Hall, in my way taking up Mr. Moore, and walked with him, talking a good while about business, in St. James’s Park, and there left him, and to Mr. Coventry’s, and so with him and Sir W. Pen up to the Duke, where the King came also and staid till the Duke was ready. It being Collarday, we had no time to talk with him about any business. They went out together. So we parted, and in the park Mr. Cooke by appointment met me, to whom I did give my thoughts concerning Tom’s match and their journey tomorrow, and did carry him by water to Tom’s, and there taking up my wife, maid, dog, and him, did carry them home, where my wife is much pleased with my house, and so am I fully. I sent for some dinner and there dined, Mrs. Margaret Pen being by, to whom I had spoke to go along with us to a play this afternoon, and then to the King’s Theatre, where we saw “Midsummer’s Night’s Dream,” which I had never seen before, nor shall ever again, for it is the most insipid ridiculous play that ever I saw in my life. I saw, I confess, some good dancing and some handsome women, which was all my pleasure.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 04:48 AM   #46

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Dylan was unarguably a great musician. However I saw him live for the first and only time at the Sydney Opera House a little while ago. To say Mrs B and I were disappointed would be an understatement. He appeared an old man, shuffling onto the stage, no interaction with the audience and not appearing to put anything into the songs.

Apart form the fact I can now say I have seen him live, it was a waste of a considerable amount of money.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 05:28 AM   #47

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Originally Posted by Von Ranke View Post
Talking about literary critics it is a good job Shakespeare's reputation did not depend on the observations of the diarist Samuel Pepys. Every time I read his diary I never get further than a few pages before I have to put it down due to tears of laughter blurring my eyes. This is an extract from his diary for the year 1662 just after he has given up on his resolution to stop drinking wine and attending the theatre :

Monday 29 September 1662
(Michaelmas day). This day my oaths for drinking of wine and going to plays are out, and so I do resolve to take a liberty to-day, and then to fall to them again. Up and by coach to White Hall, in my way taking up Mr. Moore, and walked with him, talking a good while about business, in St. James’s Park, and there left him, and to Mr. Coventry’s, and so with him and Sir W. Pen up to the Duke, where the King came also and staid till the Duke was ready. It being Collarday, we had no time to talk with him about any business. They went out together. So we parted, and in the park Mr. Cooke by appointment met me, to whom I did give my thoughts concerning Tom’s match and their journey tomorrow, and did carry him by water to Tom’s, and there taking up my wife, maid, dog, and him, did carry them home, where my wife is much pleased with my house, and so am I fully. I sent for some dinner and there dined, Mrs. Margaret Pen being by, to whom I had spoke to go along with us to a play this afternoon, and then to the King’s Theatre, where we saw “Midsummer’s Night’s Dream,” which I had never seen before, nor shall ever again, for it is the most insipid ridiculous play that ever I saw in my life. I saw, I confess, some good dancing and some handsome women, which was all my pleasure.
Well it's good to know that the sight of 'some handsome women' compensated him to some extent for having to listen to all that tosh! I believe that it only at that time that women rather than boys began to play the female roles, which have been most gratifying for Pepys.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #48
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Ever since I watched a nonchalant 55 minute concert with Bob Dylan back home around '88, I'm sceptical of the man. Him winning the Nobel prize.....NO.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 01:11 PM   #49

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His songs are poetry but they are also stories as well. I know most of his songs though Joan Baez.
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Old October 16th, 2016, 01:37 PM   #50

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
Dylan was unarguably a great musician. However I saw him live for the first and only time at the Sydney Opera House a little while ago. To say Mrs B and I were disappointed would be an understatement. He appeared an old man, shuffling onto the stage, no interaction with the audience and not appearing to put anything into the songs.

Apart form the fact I can now say I have seen him live, it was a waste of a considerable amount of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkodder View Post
Ever since I watched a nonchalant 55 minute concert with Bob Dylan back home around '88, I'm sceptical of the man. Him winning the Nobel prize.....NO.
The sad fact is Dylan's voice went years ago along with his respect for his fans, but at least you had the privilege of seeing a living legend in the flesh even if you will not get a refund.
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