Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 13th, 2010, 12:45 PM   #1
Priapus
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: the solo basement party rocking tonight
Posts: 6,489
Why did China fail at modernizing?


What caused the Chinese (Qing) to fail at modernization? and what could they have done or focused on to help? I would assume working on a modernized Navy and rail-rodes and supplies for it would have brought forth the factories to build the required components, and thus create a base for an economy with Heavy machinery, metal working, and other such industries. although many other industries would have to be added to make it truly modern.
Isoroku295 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old March 13th, 2010, 07:32 PM   #2

throughthepastdarkly's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 933
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


Guess you haven't been there in a little while.
throughthepastdarkly is offline  
Old March 13th, 2010, 08:53 PM   #3
Academician
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


modern, yes they are up to date with being modern. But they do need to learn how to be more "greenly" to our plant with all their pollution.

modern with technology they are ahead of the curve
BIG CHRIS 626 is offline  
Old March 13th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #4
Priapus
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: the solo basement party rocking tonight
Posts: 6,489
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CHRIS 626 View Post
modern, yes they are up to date with being modern. But they do need to learn how to be more "greenly" to our plant with all their pollution.

modern with technology they are ahead of the curve
I meant during the Qing dynasty
Isoroku295 is offline  
Old March 13th, 2010, 09:07 PM   #5
Academician
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


thats what happens when you dont read the whole question.

=/
BIG CHRIS 626 is offline  
Old March 13th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #6
Priapus
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: the solo basement party rocking tonight
Posts: 6,489
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


ummm ya. I said it in that first first post. I used the term "china (Qing)"
Isoroku295 is offline  
Old March 13th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #7

oshron's Avatar
Rplegacy Emperor
 
Joined: Jun 2009
From: western Terranova
Posts: 3,341
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


iirc, it was because they didnt want to have any influence from foreigners after the mongols fell out of power
oshron is offline  
Old March 14th, 2010, 02:26 PM   #8
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 1,577
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


I don't really know why they didn't manage to pull it off. They made strides in some areas and near the end had poured large amounts of money establishing a modern military. They had one of the best fleets in Europe before losing it in the 1st Sino-Japanese War.

They seem to have had a lot less internal stability than the Japanese who were able to rally around the figure of the Meiji Emperor; the Chinese seem to have lacked a similar figure. Then there was huge civil protest and rebellions like the Taiping Rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion which, as far as I know, utterly dwarf anything similar seen in Japan.

They also seemed to suffer more foreign intervention in their affairs than the Japanese.

Also, it probably didn't help that the Qing Empire was ethnically diverse compared to the homogeneous Japan. The ruling dynasty is Manchu, the majority of the population is Han, with significant minority populations such as Mongols and Uighurs and significant differences in religious belief. They saw revolts from both Muslim and Christian factions.
Eumenes is offline  
Old March 14th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #9
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,934
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoroku295 View Post
What caused the Chinese (Qing) to fail at modernization? and what could they have done or focused on to help? I would assume working on a modernized Navy and rail-rodes and supplies for it would have brought forth the factories to build the required components, and thus create a base for an economy with Heavy machinery, metal working, and other such industries. although many other industries would have to be added to make it truly modern.
This is the famous Needham question http://www.riseofthewest.net/thinkers/needham01.htm.
sylla1 is offline  
Old March 14th, 2010, 06:39 PM   #10
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,047
Re: Why did China fail at modernizing?


The reason is that modernization isn't just moderizing your armies . the Ships and weapons acquired during the late 19th century was almost entirely bought, as China at the time simply didn't have the industrial capacity to build those things .

Also, the Qing was a fully established structure at that time already, making drastic changes on a set and steady plateform is always much harder.

Also, by the later half of the 19th century, the Qing's social and economic situation was already in a full blown decline. The losses during the Opium war along with the sudden opening to the world market (which they were completely unprepared for) and ravaged the economies of the average Chinese farmers, which in term went up in arms (like the Taiping rebellion and the Nian rebellions) which further comprimises the issue.

The time for the Qing to open up was in the late 18th century, by the 19th century it was really too late. China had technologocically fell behind the West for quiet a while before this (probably sometime during the 16th century Ming or even a bit earlier)
RollingWave is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
china, fail, modernizing


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EPic Fail at Long March Isoroku295 Speculative History 4 December 1st, 2010 04:29 AM
Why did we fail in Vietnam? Commander American History 189 October 22nd, 2010 05:37 PM
Why did Napoleon fail? Ballistarius War and Military History 27 March 3rd, 2010 08:08 AM
Psychics Fail to Make History crossroadclarence Speculative History 5 November 27th, 2009 06:11 PM
Why did English rebellions against WTC fail? Ryder Medieval and Byzantine History 5 December 9th, 2008 02:00 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.