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Old December 25th, 2016, 06:55 PM   #21

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Mister Jinnah, I think, keeping dogs as pets is prohibited in Islam.
It is in the nature of many adherents that they fail to conform entirely to the precepts of Christianity, Judaism, Islam or Hinduism. Or else they would be stoning adulterers in Europe, burning widows in India and whiping homosexuals in Israel.

And there is no specific prohibition on dogs in Islam. This is another example of mullah made Islam. For further clarification -

http://www.animalsinislam.com/islam-animal-rights/dogs/


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Wah, excellent information. Is that what is taught in Pakistan?
Please do not let idiotic comments precipitate mud slinging on each others countries. Can we limit this to serious and polite discussion.

Last edited by Bullit; December 25th, 2016 at 07:01 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 07:10 PM   #22
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I know their emotions. They want maximum benefits/grants from India, freedom to siphon that money, no income tax/sales tax (if teams visit shops, they are beaten away), freedom to own cars stolen from North India, money from mostly Hindu tourists, reservations in education and jobs all over India. They are happy here. Pakistan would put them right in less than a week.
How much Delhi spend on Indian held Kashmir? Looks like they are not happy even after all that money. I've heard from Indians that Kashmiris don't want to join Pakistan but independence. Some even say autonomy with in India and special tax-free budget to keep them going. Indian held Kashmir have little agricultural land, only resource they have is electricity generated through dams which doesn't bring much of money considering initial investment needed to build dams.

If money is their primary concern then they should forget about independence or joining Pakistan. Maybe they are playing Pakistan card to get as much money from Delhi as possible in that case good for them. Mind you Azad Kashmir have least poverty in Pakistan, and even less then Indian held Kashmir as per latest UN multidimensional report. But mostly thanks to remittances and not budget provided by Islamabad.

Last edited by janjumanju123; December 25th, 2016 at 07:12 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #23

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How much Delhi spend on Indian held Kashmir? Looks like they are not happy even after all that money. I've heard from Indians that Kashmiris don't want to join Pakistan but independence. Some even say autonomy with in India and special tax-free budget to keep them going. Indian held Kashmir have little agricultural land, only resource they have is electricity generated through dams which doesn't bring much of money considering initial investment needed to build dams.

If money is their primary concern then they should forget about independence or joining Pakistan. Maybe they are playing Pakistan card to get as much money from Delhi as possible in that case good for them. Mind you Azad Kashmir have least poverty in Pakistan, and even less then Indian held Kashmir as per latest UN multidimensional report. But mostly thanks to remittances and not budget provided by Islamabad.
Can we please stick to the topic instead of venturing into a minefield that is Kashmir, no pun intended. Kashmir has little bearing on 2NT as it is after the fact - namely the partition therefore irrelevent to the titanic event of August 1947.

You could argue that Kashmir is a consequence of 2NT but definetely not the precursor to it.

Last edited by Bullit; December 25th, 2016 at 07:17 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:16 PM   #24
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population exchange is only peaceful way to solve Kashmir Issue. and accepting LOC as international boundary. Pakistan will accept 7 million Kashmiris and india will accept those 3 million Hindus from punjab and sindh and resettle them in to kashmir with Pundits.

this way pakistanis claim that they are racially different from other Indians because they are mixed with those 7 Million kashmiris and 3 million Afghan Refugees in modern time as well.

win win situation for both countries...
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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:26 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=janjumanju123;2669723]
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Jinnah was looking to protect minority north indian muslims of UP/Bihar/Gujarat (he's Gujarati remember)/Harayana.
what about Muslims of Maharashtra, South India and Bengal ?


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He was ready to accept the deal if Nehru didn't back out. I'm glad Nehru backed out because muslim punjabis formed secular party unionts with sikhs to protect rights of landholding biraderis in punjab.
interesting...

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While secular bacha khan from KPK wanted to remain part of India.
union with KPK was unrealistic, people of KPK are mostly Iranids who have nothing in common with us Indo-Aryans. 2 completely different Civilizations,Race and Ancestry. i am not even discussing their "closeness" with south Indians or North East Indians who are even Alien to us !

thank god his movement failed.




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Current day Pak native sons of soils were living in their own buble away from dangers of hindutvas butchers.
wrong, Hindus were not even 10% in Pakistani Punjab. much less in kpk and Baluchistan. even in sindh, hindus were mostly living in urban centers like karanchi and Hyderabad
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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:28 PM   #26
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Jinnah wanted to create a Muslim nation where Indian Muslims would rule with supremacy, but he wanted it to be secular than Islamic.

Jinnah is a good example of an old quote: "When leaders have no vision people perish".
Spot on ! Jinnah was a bright man. he had a vision for Pakistan, too bad he died early. and it's well know that Pakistan was well ahead of india economically till 1960s.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 02:22 AM   #27
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I agree with you that Jinnah was full of contradictions. ... It is almost a sin to say this in Pakistan but Jinnah did not make Pakistan. It came about by accident. ... Jinnah was actually representing a group that was minority in Hindu regions and wanted some form of constitutional protection of their interests. Jinnah sought parity, not Pakistan. Although he used the latter as a stick to get his parity. ... This can be seen in how month before partition Jinnah accepted the June Cabinet Mission Plan. Acceptance of this plan only two months before Pakistan came into being tells us Jinnah was not entirely 'locked' on Pakistan but sought parity. ... It would therefore appear that Pakistan came about through unintended consequences. ...

And the Pan Islamism was there all along going back to the Khilafat of movement of 1920s but it really got it's legs in 1970s and learn't to jog in 1980s. By 1990s it had learnt to sprint. By late 2000s it was somersaulting. ... Hopefully by 2020s it will trip and fall flat on it's face !
Very well put Bullit

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Old December 26th, 2016, 02:52 AM   #28

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Looks like they are not happy even after all that money.
If they show that they are happy then the funds from Delhi will diminish. They must keep the water in the kettle boiling.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 05:27 AM   #29
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I know their emotions. They want maximum benefits/grants from India, freedom to siphon that money, no income tax/sales tax (if teams visit shops, they are beaten away), Jammu and Kahmir Bank to hide their misdeeds, money for Hurriyat from Pakistan, freedom to own cars stolen from North India, money from mostly Hindu tourists, reservations in education and jobs all over India. They are happy here. Pakistan would put them right in less than a week. They are smartest of all Indians.

If a few foolish people die in disturbances, they must. They are not Salahuddin or Gilani's children who have plush jobs elsewhere or Andarabi's son who is studying in Malaysia.
I am a little troubled by the explanation of group being smarter than the rest. What makes them smarter than the rest? Is it their education, their religious or political organization, are they just born smarter?

On what is their economy based? Is one group like a parasite on the other? If so, what change is desired and by whom?
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Old December 26th, 2016, 06:08 AM   #30

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Some politicians in Kashmir want this game of making money to continue. They want ' Kashmiriyat ' or a perceived Kashmir identity ( an utterly bogus concept ) to be preserved at all costs including at the cost of most of the Kashmir muslims.That is why the Article 370 of the Constitution of India was decreed. This article prohibits Indian citizens from other parts of India to buy any property in Kashmir, it makes it possible for Kashmir to have its own flag and its own constitution, it was a foolish mistake on the part of Jawaharlal Nehru , our first Prime Minister, whose forefathers emigrated to the state of Uttar Pradesh from Kashmir. This article makes it difficult, if not impossible to apply the Prevention of Corruption Act, including the installation of the Lokayukta ( a sort of state Ombudsman ) to the state of Kashmir, it makes the Kashmiri politician a very happy person ever ready to loot the Indian money flowing freely into his state, keep the fires of separatism burning. Let Economic developement go to hell.
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