Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Asian History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Asian History Asian History Forum - China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand, and the Asia-Pacific Region


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:09 AM   #31
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 4,224
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by janjumanju123 View Post
How much Delhi spend on Indian held Kashmir? Looks like they are not happy even after all that money. I've heard from Indians that Kashmiris don't want to join Pakistan but independence. Some even say autonomy with in India and special tax-free budget to keep them going. Indian held Kashmir have little agricultural land, only resource they have is electricity generated through dams which doesn't bring much of money considering initial investment needed to build dams.

If money is their primary concern then they should forget about independence or joining Pakistan. Maybe they are playing Pakistan card to get as much money from Delhi as possible in that case good for them. Mind you Azad Kashmir have least poverty in Pakistan, and even less then Indian held Kashmir as per latest UN multidimensional report. But mostly thanks to remittances and not budget provided by Islamabad.
Why do Kashmiris want independence?

With electricity industry is made possible, but what else is available to develop industry?

Why does Azad Kashmir have the least poverty?

Which political organization is most capable of preventing a tyrant from committing atrocities? Which is most capable of economic development?
athena is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:20 AM   #32

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 7,393

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
Why do Kashmiris want independence?

With electricity industry is made possible, but what else is available to develop industry?

Why does Azad Kashmir have the least poverty?

Which political organization is most capable of preventing a tyrant from committing atrocities? Which is most capable of economic development?
It is beyond my understanding what is the good and great thing for the Kashmiri Muslims to agitate for independence. Unless it is a clever trick to pressurise the govt. of India into taking various measures to safeguard its territorial integrity such as the promulgation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act and thus claim that Indian government is suppressing the Kashmiri s.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:23 AM   #33
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 4,224
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
Some politicians in Kashmir want this game of making money to continue. They want ' Kashmiriyat ' or a perceived Kashmir identity ( an utterly bogus concept ) to be preserved at all costs including at the cost of most of the Kashmir muslims.That is why the Article 370 of the Constitution of India was decreed. This article prohibits Indian citizens from other parts of India to buy any property in Kashmir, it makes it possible for Kashmir to have its own flag and its own constitution, it was a foolish mistake on the part of Jawaharlal Nehru , our first Prime Minister, whose forefathers emigrated to the state of Uttar Pradesh from Kashmir. This article makes it difficult, if not impossible to apply the Prevention of Corruption Act, including the installation of the Lokayukta ( a sort of state Ombudsman ) to the state of Kashmir, it makes the Kashmiri politician a very happy person ever ready to loot the Indian money flowing freely into his state, keep the fires of separatism burning. Let Economic developement go to hell.
I do not comprehend? The United States are 50 united states. Each one has its own government and state governments are divided into counties and counties are divided into cities/towns. We have governing bodies on each level with slightly different governing concerns. Each state has its own flag, state flower, and culture. None could have more pride in their state than Texans, but we all take in pride in our states, we just are not as boastful as Texans. What is the problem?
athena is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:32 AM   #34

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 7,393

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
I do not comprehend? The United States are 50 united states. Each one has its own government and state governments are divided into counties and counties are divided into cities/towns. We have governing bodies on each level with slightly different governing concerns. Each state has its own flag, state flower, and culture. None could have more pride in their state than Texans, but we all take in pride in our states, we just are not as boastful as Texans. What is the problem?
Please note that no Indian citizen can purchase property in Kashmir nor can he /she settle there permanently. This way the state of Kashmir is effectively insulated from the rest of India. It cannot ever integrate with India till the Article 370 is abrogated. This is not the way the USA is made up of.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:35 AM   #35

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 7,393

And , Athena, my friend, the O.P. has nothing to do with Kashmir but it is about Hindus and Muslims being separate nations. So let us stick to the O.P. please.
The essence of the problem between the Hindus and Muslims of India is the bloodied history of the Indian sub-continent. The Muslims invaded India, established their rule by sword over many parts of India , mostly in the northwest and northern parts of India, less successfully and less continuously in southern part of India. This invasion was resisted by the Hindu kingdoms, most of the time unsuccessfully. The rule of the various Muslim Kings and so-called Emperors was oppressive in so far as the Hindus were concerned, the Hindus were many a times forcibly converted to Islam ,their wives and daughters were dishonoured and kept as concubines. The Hindus who resisted were killed brutally. On the top of this came the partition of India on religious lines dreamed up by the last representative of the British power Mountbatten and foolishly accepted by greedy politicians from the Congress party ( mostly Hindu ) and the Indian Muslim League. The blood shed in 1946 and 1947 was the most horrendous even in the bloodied history of our sub-continent.
So the two nation theory has been proven in the blood baths that have taken place on the soil of the Indian sub-continent.

Last edited by rvsakhadeo; December 26th, 2016 at 06:50 AM.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:39 AM   #36
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 4,224
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
It is beyond my understanding what is the good and great thing for the Kashmiri Muslims to agitate for independence. Unless it is a clever trick to pressurise the govt. of India into taking various measures to safeguard its territorial integrity such as the promulgation of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act and thus claim that Indian government is suppressing the Kashmiri s.
Okay, from time to time one of the states of the united states agitates and talk of separation begins. It is just talk. We have our early civil war to remember, and this thread is causing me to realize how important that is to our union. We can think of succeeding are remember what happened when the Southern states tried to do that, and what is worth that kind of bloodshed? Perhaps India needs a story. But wait, Hindus and Muslims do have stories of war that result in being united, they are stories of war that united them separately and not as one nation.

Can a good story teller create a good story for why union is best and how awful things are when there is an attempt to succeed from the union? Perhaps that is the magic, one story of union that all can share. I really don't think people are thinking about the important issues, but only their stories that create a separation between them.
athena is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:44 AM   #37
Hellenist
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 4,224
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aham Brahmasmi View Post
population exchange is only peaceful way to solve Kashmir Issue. and accepting LOC as international boundary. Pakistan will accept 7 million Kashmiris and india will accept those 3 million Hindus from punjab and sindh and resettle them in to kashmir with Pundits.

this way pakistanis claim that they are racially different from other Indians because they are mixed with those 7 Million kashmiris and 3 million Afghan Refugees in modern time as well.

win win situation for both countries...
Quote:
rvsakhadeo And , Athena, my friend, the O.P. has nothing to do with Kashmir but it is about Hindus and Muslims being separate nations. So let us stick to the O.P. please.
I am sorry for not sticking to the O.P.. Perhaps I should stay out of a discussion that I do not understand? You are the only one who related to what I said anyway. The best way to handle gain understanding is to ignore the people (usually females) who do not understand the discussion. Or is that why people have a hard time resolving their problems with reason?

Last edited by athena; December 26th, 2016 at 06:50 AM.
athena is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:46 AM   #38

Devdas's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2015
From: India
Posts: 3,026

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
That is why the Article 370 of the Constitution of India was decreed.
I have hardly seen people from Jammu and Ladakh being so obsessed with Article 370. Its the Kashmir valley that's obsessed with keeping article 370.
Devdas is online now  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:48 AM   #39

Aupmanyav's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: New Delhi, India
Posts: 1,428

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
I am a little troubled by the explanation of group being smarter than the rest. What makes them smarter than the rest? Is it their education, their religious or political organization, are they just born smarter?

On what is their economy based? Is one group like a parasite on the other? If so, what change is desired and by whom?
Should be in a separate topic. They are born smarter. Religion, yes - 'We are Muslims therefore will join Pakistan'. That is what they say. Economy - Grants from Indian government, tourism, apples. Parasite - better keep quite. They could change if they so desire. If they don't, that too is OK with us.
Aupmanyav is offline  
Old December 26th, 2016, 06:51 AM   #40

Devdas's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Apr 2015
From: India
Posts: 3,026

Quote:
Originally Posted by athena View Post
Why do Kashmiris want independence?

With electricity industry is made possible, but what else is available to develop industry?

Why does Azad Kashmir have the least poverty?

Which political organization is most capable of preventing a tyrant from committing atrocities? Which is most capable of economic development?
The problem in Kashmir that started in 1989 is the direct consequences of spillover of Afghan war across the region when Pakistan diverted the Afghan Jihadi infrastructure against India. Also, other fact is the problem is confined to Kashmir valley only, you will never heard of violence or protests even in Muslim majority towns of Jammu and Ladakh.
Devdas is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > Asian History

Tags
hindus, muslims, nations



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ghurids were not Hindus Azad67 Asian History 51 December 22nd, 2016 04:04 AM
Why Kashmiri Hindus look distinctly different from Kashmiri muslims? Azad67 Asian History 24 May 6th, 2016 04:02 PM
Is the United Nations just as big of a fail as the League of Nations Was? PinkPanter456 General History 49 April 10th, 2013 04:42 AM
Hindus Fought in Karbala! Jhangora War and Military History 4 December 8th, 2012 08:49 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.