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Old April 11th, 2017, 12:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Drizzt View Post
There's this famous story of a Koryeo diplomat diverting a disastrous encounter with Khitans and actually taking back some of our ancient lands. In year 993 (12th year of King Seongjong's reign), Khitan (契丹 or 大遼) invaded Koryeo with 800,000 strong army. Khitan general demanded Koryeo return their ancestral land currently part of Koryeo. His reasoning was that, "Koryeo originated from Silla and Goguryeo's ancient land is Khitan's. We are here to take back what's rightfully ours." 徐熙 countered Khitan general's claim by saying, "Hell no. Koryeo is the true descendants of Goguryeo. That is why we named our country Goryeo and our capital 西京. He claimed that the land Khitan is occupying is the land that the true descendants of Goguryeo has the claim to and should be given back to Koryeo."

Khitan general's actual purpose of the invasion was to make sure Koryeo does not side with Song when Khitan invades Song. So Khitan general asked Koryeo's diplomat why Koryeo do not trade with Khitan. 徐熙 responded back to Khitan general, "If we chase away the Jurchens and recover our ancestral land, we will have direct path to trade with you."
Doesn't this contradict your original point? Khitan (Mongolic people) are stated to hold currently the land of Goguryeo, they don't mention any ethnic or cultural links. Their rightful right seems to stem from the convinction that since they own most of Goguryeo land they are privy to the rest of it. Likewise neither Goryeo nor Khitan claim any links to Jurchens, apart from the fact that Korean ancestral land is currently under Jurchen control.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #12

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Doesn't this contradict your original point? Khitan (Mongolic people) are stated to hold currently the land of Goguryeo, they don't mention any ethnic or cultural links. Their rightful right seems to stem from the convinction that since they own most of Goguryeo land they are privy to the rest of it. Likewise neither Goryeo nor Khitan claim any links to Jurchens, apart from the fact that Korean ancestral land is currently under Jurchen control.
No, I do not see any contradiction. Khitan, Juerchen, Mongolians, Koreans... I believe we are all from the same stock. Sentence structure of these people are similar, yet vastly different from Han Chinese. What the Khitan general and Koryeo diplomat are arguing is who (which people) is the legitimate true heir (i.e. 1st born son).
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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:52 AM   #13
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

I am so sick and tired of this BS!

All East Asians, N Chinese, Koreans, Japanese and Northeasterners share a common origin in the N China Plain that straddles Hebei to the north through Shandong and Henan in the south. This makes no sense at all what you posted

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Actually NE Asian cultures, Sinitic, Koreanic, Japonic, Tungusic-Mongolic all share common roots in the HONGSHAN CULTURE.

Please read the conclusion of Evelyn Rawki's Presidential Address: Reenvisioning the Qing where she talks about Hongshan's importance to ALL cultures of NE Asia:
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/wp-conte...awski-1996.pdf

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The task of deconstructing the national-level narrative, which demands that scholars carefully study regional and local cultures in various periods, has already begun in China and abroad, with the startling discoveries of complex jade-working cultures outside the Central Plain that Ho Ping-to cited as the "cradle of Chinese civilization" (Ho 1976). These new archeological discoveries suggest multiple origins of the features that we identified as "Chinese." Archeologists have identified a distinctive northeastern cultural complex with ties to the peoples who resided in the Korean peninsula and islands of Japn, that might have contributed to the origins of the Shang state (Nelson 1995, 252). That the homeland of the Jurchen/Manchus developed its own distinctive Neolithic society, epitomized in the Hongshan site, challenges the center-periphery assumptions of Sinology. Multiply this question by the number of these new sites and we have an approximation of the challenge that awaits historians.

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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:56 AM   #14
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East Asia has one common culture and one common region. Sorry, but this is how the whole world sees it
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Old April 11th, 2017, 11:03 AM   #15
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The foremost Korean academics and scientists all agree Koreans, Chinese and Japanese all have a shared origin in South China and Southeast Asia. Korea, Japan, China was all connected and part of a landmass that extended as far as Sundaland where East Asians and Southeast Asians emerged from during the Ice Age before being flooded by rising sea levels.

One of the leading scientists in the linked video says that modern East Asians: Koreans, Chinese and Japanese all have their roots in the Tai-Kradai people from a landmass connecting Korea and Japan with China (probably more accurately a group consisting of Austronesian+Tai-Kradai+Austroasiatic language families according to linguists like Paul Benedict, George van Driem, Laurent Sagart, Roger Blench and the like)

That passage is totally irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. Your statements do not make any sense when stacked up with concrete scientific research and analysis

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Old April 12th, 2017, 11:04 AM   #16

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Actually NE Asian cultures, Sinitic, Koreanic, Japonic, Tungusic-Mongolic all share common roots in the HONGSHAN CULTURE.
I agree with your statement here with exception of 'Sinitic' people. When you say Sinitic, you're talking about Han Chinese which originated in SW region of China (Huaxia living along Yangze) and evolved a culture separate from Hongshan. Hongshan culture had unique culture and weapons system separate from Huaxia, or Han Chinese. So I would fix your statement to, "NE Asian cultures, Koreanic, Japonic, Tungusic-Mongolic all share common roots in the HONGSHAN CULTURE."
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Old April 12th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #17
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Huaxia were along the yellow river in the north. Near modern day Zhengzhou. Not Yangtze
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Old April 13th, 2017, 07:25 AM   #18
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Let's stop dealing with empty claims and see if there are linguistic or cultural ties.

Korean is currently (and accurately) considered a language isolate. It should actually be considered a microfamily, with Cheju as a sister language to mainland Korean.

Typologically, Korean patterns like a Siberian language, and NOT like an Altaic one, such as a Tungusic, Mongolic, or Turkic one (by Altaic I mean the north Asian nomadic sprachbund, not a genetic relationship). Now typological similarities or differences don't indicate any kind of genetic relationship, but it does bring up some interesting questions as to what languages Korean might have once been in close contact with.

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Old April 13th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #19
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Huaxia were along the yellow river in the north. Near modern day Zhengzhou. Not Yangtze
And actually they originated from Qinghai lake which is in northeast qinghai which is more like Northwest China
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Old April 13th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #20
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And actually they originated from Qinghai lake which is in northeast qinghai which is more like Northwest China
The ancient Huaxia like the ancestors of Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, the Hmong-Mien, Vietnamese, Burmese and the Tai-Kradai all ultimately originate from the south of China based on latest findings. All East Asians ultimately share common origins with Negritos (which isn't a neutrally correct word) in Southeast Asia a relic population of the Sundaland landmass. The spread of modern languages is only recent compared to the sum total of movements of peoples in the last few tens of thousands of years. A lot, language replacement and language extiction, has to do with the mechanisms of colonialism, imperialism and nationalism than anything else
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