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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:17 AM   #21
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What about the conclusions of genetic studies mentioned in that article? Do you agree with them?
I think there is one such study/report coming every month. You have to consider them with a grain of salt. One of the most important conclusions will be of Rakhigarhi skeletons.Surprisingly, it is taking years for the experts to come to a conclusion!

On the other hand, the "linguist" howlers have been claiming that Mitanni language is older than Vedic that even a high school student who has gone through a bit of native grammar can clearly see that this is trash-worthy.

These are the experts that have been unable to come up with any meaningful interpretation to Gathas (you have to just read the horrendous translations to understand what I am talking about), and yet they pompously claim that they have traced the development of that enigmatic "PIE" from that Lala land of Steppes.

To cite an example, the Avestan literature quite clearly mentions that there are divine aspects of Ahura Mazda such as Vohu Manah, Asha Vahishta, Spenta Aramaiti, Spenta Mainyu, etc.. These are like parts of the whole, where the whole is nothing but Ahura Mazda. Not surprisingly, they are called the sparks from Ahura, and are termed "Amesha Spentas". If you know a bit of Sanskrit, you would intuitively know that "Amsha" is a word that indicates "part", and that word is present in Rig Veda as well. So my logical inference is that "Amesha" of Avestan is equivalent to Vedic "Amsha". Yet the "experts" of Avestan would like us to believe that the word "Amesha" means "immortal"! And by the way, the word "Spenta" of Avestan maps to Vedic "ShvAnta", which means "tranquil". But it seems that the "experts" have arrived at a totally different meaning:
speta [-]
(I) prosperous (Hum2 172); holy, beneficent (HZI 196), bountiful; prosperity increasing; (ahm157 incremental, whose activity results in increase (beneficial?) (k547)

Look at the word "Spenta Mainyu", and see how perfectly the meaning would be if it is "tranquil spirit", for Mainyu of Avestan is Manyu of Vedic, and that means "temper" or "spirit".

With even the above mentioned basic words not being understood properly, can you ever believe these "experts" if they say Mitanni is older than Sanskrit? I certainly do not, simply because there is no "expertise".

Vedic is older than Mitanni, and the relation is also similar to Sanskrit->Prakrit. Without any mumbo-jumbo, what this means is that the direction of transmission was from India to West.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:21 AM   #22

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He looks more like a Kerala communist from his place name who are generally fond of mocking any Hindu belief that's why there is a strong Hindu revivalism even in places like Kerala. Tamilians in general are very strict about their Hindu values and Hindu dietary laws.
I do not know enough to comment. He could be a Tamil and a Christian for all I know. But whatever, Dravidanadu breaking away from India is a laughable idea.
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... he infact found Vedic Sapta Sindhu or Sapta Saindhava strikingly similar to geography of Indus Valley civilization.
Does one need to be a scholar to see that? Only a totally ignorant person will deny that.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; June 18th, 2017 at 06:25 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:29 AM   #23

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Yet the "experts" of Avestan would like us to believe that the word "Amesha" means "immortal"!
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 'hamesha', in Hindi (which happens to be a descendant of Sanskrit, BTW), means 'perpetual' or 'forever', IIRC. That wud be close enough to 'mmortal', I wud say. Cud just be that them Avestan experts are seeing it from that angle.

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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:39 AM   #24

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These are the experts that have been unable to come up with any meaningful interpretation to Gathas (you have to just read the horrendous translations to understand what I am talking about), and yet they pompously claim that they have traced the development of that enigmatic "PIE" from that Lala land of Steppes.
If you are interested in Zoroastrian Gatha, then I would suggest Gth-b-mani: transliterated and translated into English by K. E. Kanga. It is a very interesting book. It also has the Sanskrit equivalents of Gatha words. Nearly every Gatha word has a Sanskrit equivalent. Here is the link: http://www.avesta.org/kanga/kanga_gathas.pdf

I accept the possibility of Spenta being what you say and even Dreamhunter's correlation of Hamesha is interesting. I will check more on this. Hamesha could have come to Hindi/Urdu via Persian. (BTW, in Rajasthani, people generally pronounce it as Hermes)

Last edited by Aupmanyav; June 18th, 2017 at 06:59 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 08:15 AM   #25

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 'hamesha', in Hindi (which happens to be a descendant of Sanskrit, BTW), means 'perpetual' or 'forever', IIRC. That wud be close enough to 'mmortal', I wud say. Cud just be that them Avestan experts are seeing it from that angle.
Hamesha means forever which is a Persian loanword in Hindi, proper Hindi word is Sada.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #26
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If you are interested in Zoroastrian Gatha, then I would suggest Gth-b-mani: transliterated and translated into English by K. E. Kanga. It is a very interesting book. It also has the Sanskrit equivalents of Gatha words. Nearly every Gatha word has a Sanskrit equivalent. Here is the link: http://www.avesta.org/kanga/kanga_gathas.pdf

I accept the possibility of Spenta being what you say and even Dreamhunter's correlation of Hamesha is interesting. I will check more on this. Hamesha could have come to Hindi/Urdu via Persian. (BTW, in Rajasthani, people generally pronounce it as Hermes)
Avestan words that start with 'a' do have Vedic equivalent of words starting with 'a'. For example, the Vedic word 'Amrta' has Avestan equivalent 'Amereta'. Other examples: Apa, Angushta, etc.. So 'Amesha' is not 'Hamesha'.

Thank you for the link.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #27

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Hamesha means forever which is a Persian loanword in Hindi.
If that is the case, then that is more or less like saying that Indians borrowed a certain Persian word, i.e. 'amesha' or 'hamesha', to use it to mean a certain something, i.e. 'forever', when the purist Indian scholars (based on what Aatreya was saying about 'amesha' being the wrong Avestan/OldPersian word for 'forever') and happily kept on using that wrongly borrowed Persian word, to mean that certain something, i.e. 'forever', in like a hamesha hamesha kind of way.

Well, it happens. At least it's not as bad as the Romans borrowing the word toxikon, which actually meant arrow, as in toxikon venenum (i.e. poison arrow, with the bit meaning poison being venenum) from Greek, and blissfully went on using the Romanised word toxicum to mean poison, when what it actually meant in its original Greek form was arrow. To the point that until today both venom & toxin has remained in use in English to mean poison.

Last edited by Dreamhunter; June 18th, 2017 at 06:51 PM.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #28

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This is the first time I am hearing someone associating Gandhara grave culture to Aryan invasion. Gandhara grave culture is contemporary to Cemetery H culture which ultimately evolved into the Indo-Gangetic culture. Cemetery H culture the dying phase of IVC is often proposed as a Vedic age period. Beside, the Mauryan Era Gandhara terracotta figures has striking similarity to the Indus valley era terracotta figures.
No idea why you never heard about it. This work of BB Lal is from 1992 and reprinted many times. He has given a concordance between the three periods of Vedic literature (the Rigvedic, the late Vedic, and the period of Sutras) and three stages of Painted Grey Ware Culture. [page 429]
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Old June 18th, 2017, 10:08 PM   #29

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So 'Amesha' is not 'Hamesha'.
Persians had a fixation with 'h'. Hapta-Hendu, Haoma, Horayu, Harahvaiti.
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Well, it happens. At least it's not as bad as the Romans borrowing the word toxikon, ..
I don't find anything bad with that too. Word are just conventions.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; June 18th, 2017 at 10:14 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2017, 05:42 AM   #30
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Aryans started the Family system. They established Dowry System. They wrote the Vedas. Cattle growing main occupation. The term Aryan means Warrior.
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