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Old June 22nd, 2017, 11:42 AM   #51

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Why cud an invasion not hv been possible. If India was pretty frequently invaded in relatively recent times, it shud not hv been impossible also that they were invaded in ancient times.

Many places were invaded in history. Sometimes the invaders eventually leave. Some other times, they stay & merge with the original local populace, a relatively recent example being Anatolian Turkey. It's no big deal.

Central Asia was originally a region predominantly inhabited by Indo-Iranian peoples in its entirety. But today, places like Kazakhstan, Kyrghiztan, not to mention Mongolia proper, hv become predominantly Turkic or predominantly Mongolic.

China was invaded not a few times. So was Russia. So was the Iranian lands, both before & after the era of Persia. So was many countries in Europe, including the lands that hv become today's Britain, France, Germany, Hungary etc. etc. etc. No valid reasons for India to hv been an exception.

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Old June 22nd, 2017, 11:52 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
Why cud an invasion not hv been possible. If India was pretty frequently invaded in relatively recent times, it shud not hv been impossible also that they were invaded in ancient times.

Many places were invaded in history. Sometimes the invaders eventually leave. Some other times, they stay & merge with the original local populace, a relatively recent example being Anatolian Turkey. It's no big deal.

China was invaded not a few times. So was Russia. So was the Iranian lands, both before & after the era of Persia. So was many countries in Europe, including the lands that hv become today's Britain, France, Germany, Hungary etc. etc. etc. No valid reasons for India to hv been an exception.
The only reason why some Hindus don't accept the Aryan invasion is because it makes Hinduism, the religion of more than 80% of Indians, a religion created by invaders. They don't want to hear that. It is too shameful.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 12:03 PM   #53

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Whether it was a dramatic invasion, or a gradual migration-assimilation, or a mix of both, one shud remain open about the full range of historical possibilities. After all, even the Dravidian people might possibly not hv been the ultimate original inhabitants of India, becos there still remain quite substantial traces of other earlier peoples preceding even them in the Indian sub-continent.

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Old June 22nd, 2017, 12:28 PM   #54

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The only reason why some Hindus don't accept the Aryan invasion is because it makes Hinduism, the religion of more than 80% of Indians, a religion created by invaders. They don't want to hear that. It is too shameful.
There shud be nothing shameful about that. If that was what it really was. Christianity was not indigenous to Europe. It sprang in West Asia. But today Europe has become the bastion of Christianity.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 03:01 PM   #55
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Whether it was a dramatic invasion, or a gradual migration-assimilation, or a mix of both, one shud remain open about the full range of historical possibilities. After all, even the Dravidian people might possibly not hv been the ultimate original inhabitants of India, becos there still remain quite substantial traces of other earlier peoples preceding even them in the Indian sub-continent.
Among those Hindus who believe Aryans came from outside India, most prefer migration, since it makes their arrival non-violent, and hence palatable. There are just too many problems with it:

First, literary evidence in the Vedas provide evidence that it was an Aryan invasion. One doesn't peacefully migrate riding chariots, and fighting.
Secondly, wherever Aryans showed up in areas outside India, its natives resisted making it an invasion, the most natural behavior.
Thirdly, whenever in history outsiders of the kind like Aryans showed in India, it was an invasion.
Fourthly, if it was not an invasion, it assumes that native Indians were so meek and docile that they let these foreigners to come and rule over them without a fight.
Fifthly, it is historically not accepted that Aryan tribes were of the kind like the Gypsies who could peacefully migrate in.

If the Aryans didn't found the Vedic Hinduism, Hindus would not have had problems in accepting their arrival as invasion.

Dravidians came into India in pre-historic times, so not much is known about it.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 04:01 PM   #56

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Among those Hindus who believe Aryans came from outside India, most prefer migration, since it makes their arrival non-violent, and hence palatable. There are just too many problems with it:

First, literary evidence in the Vedas provide evidence that it was an Aryan invasion. One doesn't peacefully migrate riding chariots, and fighting.
Secondly, wherever Aryans showed up in areas outside India, its natives resisted making it an invasion, the most natural behavior.
Thirdly, whenever in history outsiders of the kind like Aryans showed in India, it was an invasion.
Fourthly, if it was not an invasion, it assumes that native Indians were so meek and docile that they let these foreigners to come and rule over them without a fight.
Fifthly, it is historically not accepted that Aryan tribes were of the kind like the Gypsies who could peacefully migrate in.

If the Aryans didn't found the Vedic Hinduism, Hindus would not have had problems in accepting their arrival as invasion.

Dravidians came into India in pre-historic times, so not much is known about it.
I am sorry can you actually back up your argument with evidence. Because saying things do not make it true. Majority of Indians are unaware of OIT or AMT they still derive their history from colonial era history (AIT). I am interested in if you can prove that there was even a resistance for starters (You don't hear about it in vedas just so you know). AMT is backed up by the fact that India haven't seen any major genetic deviation for over 10,000 years. Indians have largely been genetically remained same during past 10,000 year. If there was an invasion and subsequent killing of the people then there would be a considerable change in genitics across Northern India. Where is archeological evidence of warfare. History,Science need scientific evidence. They are not based on hearsay. It is not like saying " I believe in God" because there is no scope in believing things. If it was so I could simply believe I descend from aliens, does'nt make it true does it.

Last edited by anmol; June 22nd, 2017 at 04:09 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 05:31 PM   #57
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There shud be nothing shameful about that. If that was what it really was. Christianity was not indigenous to Europe. It sprang in West Asia. But today Europe has become the bastion of Christianity.
Absolutely. But the fact is that people do "remember" that Christianity was not indigenous to Europe. Unfortunately for the supporters of this "fantasy" theory, there is no such remembrance in India. Provide an evidence of one such lore, and we will discuss about it.

FYI, these kind of invasions/migrations are not lost from memory. So this theory is pure nonsense.
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 05:34 PM   #58
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Among those Hindus who believe Aryans came from outside India, most prefer migration, since it makes their arrival non-violent, and hence palatable. There are just too many problems with it:

First, literary evidence in the Vedas provide evidence that it was an Aryan invasion. One doesn't peacefully migrate riding chariots, and fighting.
Secondly, wherever Aryans showed up in areas outside India, its natives resisted making it an invasion, the most natural behavior.
Thirdly, whenever in history outsiders of the kind like Aryans showed in India, it was an invasion.
Fourthly, if it was not an invasion, it assumes that native Indians were so meek and docile that they let these foreigners to come and rule over them without a fight.
Fifthly, it is historically not accepted that Aryan tribes were of the kind like the Gypsies who could peacefully migrate in.

If the Aryans didn't found the Vedic Hinduism, Hindus would not have had problems in accepting their arrival as invasion.

Dravidians came into India in pre-historic times, so not much is known about it.
Here we go... What exactly is the evidence from Vedas about invasion?
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 06:34 PM   #59
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I am sorry can you actually back up your argument with evidence. Because saying things do not make it true. Majority of Indians are unaware of OIT or AMT they still derive their history from colonial era history (AIT). I am interested in if you can prove that there was even a resistance for starters (You don't hear about it in vedas just so you know). AMT is backed up by the fact that India haven't seen any major genetic deviation for over 10,000 years. Indians have largely been genetically remained same during past 10,000 year. If there was an invasion and subsequent killing of the people then there would be a considerable change in genitics across Northern India. Where is archeological evidence of warfare. History,Science need scientific evidence. They are not based on hearsay. It is not like saying " I believe in God" because there is no scope in believing things. If it was so I could simply believe I descend from aliens, does'nt make it true does it.
So you also believe there was no Muslim invasion either, because "Indians have largely been genetically remained same during past 10,000 year"?
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Old June 22nd, 2017, 06:39 PM   #60

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So you also believe there was no Muslim invasion either, because "Indians have largely been genetically remained same during past 10,000 year"?
So my friend please provide the proof of the invasion. Where are the archeological remains of warfare. Muslim invasion did not cause a whole scale change in culture , religion, language but some how you believe aryans did without changing the genitics of the region.
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