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Old September 4th, 2017, 10:29 AM   #81

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Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
Even Sikhs do not cut their hair. Tamil? Perhaps Sri Guru Nanak Saheb ji was Tamil. I do not think hair cutting saloon were popular in history. And the two warring people in the Battle of Ten Kings in RigVeda also had hair buns, one on the right side and the other on the left. Tamil?

Last edited by Aupmanyav; September 4th, 2017 at 10:32 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:41 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by tornada View Post
It is not my fault that you do not understand English or have any knowledge about the history of the language.


If you were to actually open the links you'd find that. In many cases the words mean entirely different things from what you think they do. Nova does not for example mean ship, it means New. Finding a link to the Tamil word for Ship is just specious. In every other case, the origins for the English word as it exists today can be traced. Its roots involved variation in spellings and pronunciations over time. You seem to be looking at words as they exist today, locate some moderately similar sounding word or phrase in Tamil and then conclude on the mere contemporary similarity of pronunciations today (which vary drastically with accents I might add) that the English word is derived from the Tamil - a derivation crossing Language families and grammar! And this from someone who cannot even correctly spell atleast one of the six words he's supposedly found roots for!

The only one where you have a semblance of a case is the word for Rice, which is a crop of Indic origins, so its name is also likely of Indian origins. However the etymological roots of the word, while possibly from Dravidian, are uncertain. As the wiki page for the word explains, the root for the word could easily be from Indo-European.

Given that the biological origins of the crop lie East of India, likely in China but possibly also in the vicinity of South East Asia, the word's origins could just as easily be external to both Dravidian AND Indo-European.

Once again however you seem to have fallen back on your standard forms of argumentation. You make an absurd claim. You provide NO proof. You simply state something and claim it to be reality (as with your claims of Tamil origins of English Indo-European words). Then when given challenges, you demand proof and explanations, but will never accept it, constantly demanding more and more. The first set of links I provided alone showed that your case had no basis. But you won't be satisfied will you? You'll keep demanding explanations or "evidence", refusing to accept that which is already provided, refusing to accept academic and expert opinion, and keep making statements that have no basis. Heck the one academic source you did post, though related to a different issue, flatly contradicted what you believe!
Quote:
If you were to actually open the links you'd find that. In many cases the words mean entirely different things from what you think they do. Nova does not for example mean ship, it means New. Finding a link to the Tamil word for Ship is just specious. In every other case, the origins for the English word as it exists today can be traced. Its roots involved variation in spellings and pronunciations over time. You seem to be looking at words as they exist today, locate some moderately similar sounding word or phrase in Tamil and then conclude on the mere contemporary similarity of pronunciations today (which vary drastically with accents I might add) that the English word is derived from the Tamil - a derivation crossing Language families and grammar! And this from someone who cannot even correctly spell atleast one of the six words he's supposedly found roots for!
Your explanation of Nova for New is grammatically wrong . According to TOLKAPIAM(Tamil Grammer) Every word should have a meaning. (in Tamil language it is "Echollum poroludaithe") Accordingly, why Nova is named as Nova is as he is escaped from the great deluge by building a ship(In Tamil there are 24 names for ship and Naavaai is one among them ) he is called Nova. As the word Naavaai is meant for Ship in English, came the words Navy, Navigation etc. NEW is an entirely different word from Nova and Oxford dictionary gives the meaning like this. The word New in French Nouveau, in German it is neu, In Italian Nuovo, Portugese it is NOVO.

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The only one where you have a semblance of a case is the word for Rice, which is a crop of Indic origins, so its name is also likely of Indian origins. However the etymological roots of the word, while possibly from Dravidian, are uncertain. As the wiki page for the word explains, the root for the word could easily be from Indo-European.
Wikki


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Once again however you seem to have fallen back on your standard forms of argumentation. You make an absurd claim. You provide NO proof. You simply state something and claim it to be reality (as with your claims of Tamil origins of English Indo-European words). Then when given challenges, you demand proof and explanations, but will never accept it, constantly demanding more and more. The first set of links I provided alone showed that your case had no basis. But you won't be satisfied will you? You'll keep demanding explanations or "evidence", refusing to accept that which is already provided, refusing to accept academic and expert opinion, and keep making statements that have no basis. Heck the one academic source you did post, though related to a different issue, flatly contradicted what you believe!
I have not considered your Comment about Tamil language as a serious debate because this is what I can expect from a person who do not know the ABCD of Tamil. If someone from this group who have grammatical knowledge in Tamil I can discuss with him and he can also understand my view.

Secondly, I don' t expect any attestation or acknowledgement from you because prior to you , many centuries back G.U Pope, Caldwell and Constantine Joseph Beski who are foreigners came to south India , Learned classical Tamil, written tamil literature books and had pronounced the world about the antiquity and the literary strength of Tamil language. We don't want to accept the theory of Max muller who never learned Tamil and who did not know there is an ancient language exist that in the name as Tamil

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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:12 AM   #83

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RigVeda uses the word 'navam' for a ship and (I think), there is a mention of four seas, which is a bit surprising. Which four?
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:17 AM   #84

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Thanks a lot Unmai53 for a good entertainment and laughter.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 10:19 AM   #85
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Dear Lord! The "navy", "navigation" words of English/Latin have Indo-European etymology and their cognates are present in Sanskrit as "nau", 'ship', "nAva", 'ship' and "nAvikah", 'sailor'; The Telugu word "nAva" and the Tamil word "nAvai" are decidedly borrowings from Sanskrit.

Some of the major native Dravidian words for 'boat'/'ship' are Telugu "ODa", Tamil "OTam" (DEDR entry 1039) and Telugu "paDava", Tamil "paTavu" (DEDR 3838).

Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (DEDR) is at A Dravidian Etymological Dictionary

The ultimate facepalm moment in this entire affair has to be the connection of Biblical word "Noah" which either has Afroasiatic or Sumerian roots and a completely different etymology with Dravidian words that mean something entirely different and the Dravidian ones connected also not being Dravidian in the first place but which we know with clarity as borrowings from Indo-European via Sanskrit.

EDIT: The linguistic extremist poster did not seem to connect the Biblical Noah with the Tamil 'ship' word after all. (It's anyway a matter of time only I guess. If not today, tomorrow.) I assumed he did. Sorry.

EDIT2: This time, more seriously, I'm very sorry for sexistly using the "he" pronoun in the previous edit. Please read the earlier "I assumed he did" as "I assumed they did". Please try to have the tendency to forgive me for any such mistakes, though I'll try my best not to repeat them. Thanks again y'all.

Last edited by historumsi; September 5th, 2017 at 10:35 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:54 AM   #86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unmai53 View Post
Your explanation of Nova for New is grammatically wrong . According to TOLKAPIAM(Tamil Grammer) Every word should have a meaning. (in Tamil language it is "Echollum poroludaithe") Accordingly, why Nova is named as Nova is as he is escaped from the great deluge by building a ship(In Tamil there are 24 names for ship and Naavaai is one among them ) he is called Nova. As the word Naavaai is meant for Ship in English, came the words Navy, Navigation etc. NEW is an entirely different word from Nova and Oxford dictionary gives the meaning like this. The word New in French Nouveau, in German it is neu, In Italian Nuovo, Portugese it is NOVO.
The bloody hell are you talking about? Nova is not NOAH. The biblical dude is called Noah or Nūḥ. Nova means NEW. It is NOT related to the words for Navy and Naval, which are related to the Indo-European nau (as already others have explained). Nova comes from a Latin word meaning NEW. As in NEW MAN in Roman politics. Ofcourse every word has meaning. When a word has no meaning it is gibberish. You don't need the Tolkappiam to tell you that every word has a meaning! The other words you have described come from the same root. Portuguese NOVO is a cousin to NOVA. Both derive from Latin! NOVUS. Look it up. You are aware that Latin is a language yes?


Quote:
Wikki
Infinitely superior to nothing at all. I cannot teach you etymology and linguistics.

Quote:
I have not considered your Comment about Tamil language as a serious debate because this is what I can expect from a person who do not know the ABCD of Tamil. If someone from this group who have grammatical knowledge in Tamil I can discuss with him and he can also understand my view.
You don't know the ABCD of Latin, Greek or English. So why are you commenting on the origins of words belonging to those languages?

Quote:
Secondly, I don' t expect any attestation or acknowledgement from you because prior to you , many centuries back G.U Pope, Caldwell and Constantine Joseph Beski who are foreigners came to south India , Learned classical Tamil, written tamil literature books and had pronounced the world about the antiquity and the literary strength of Tamil language. We don't want to accept the theory of Max muller who never learned Tamil and who did not know there is an ancient language exist that in the name as Tamil
Want to accept - tells you everything doesn't it. You only "Want" what suits you. Evidence and facts aren't issues of want. You don't just discard the evidence you deem inconvenient. And English words like Culture are not derived from some random Tamil word. I have disputed neither the antiquity or literary merits of Tamil, so not sure what you're going on about. Tamil is a damn ancient language. Dating to about 500 BCE if the Adichanallur evidence is accurate. That doesn't mean English words meaning New are related to Noah of the Ark or the Tamil word for Boat!

Last edited by tornada; September 5th, 2017 at 11:58 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 12:00 PM   #87

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Originally Posted by historumsi View Post
EDIT: The linguistic extremist poster did not seem to connect the Biblical Noah with the Tamil 'ship' word after all. (It's anyway a matter of time only I guess. If not today, tomorrow.) I assumed he did. Sorry.
He seems to have done. Apparently the English word Nova doesn't mean New at all, since New as a word already exists He claims Nova means Ship as well as Noah. This coming from someone who claims no-body can dispute his English-Tamil word connections because they know no Tamil, even as he demonstrates no knowledge of English!
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Old September 5th, 2017, 06:37 PM   #88

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But are not Noah, Hazrat Nooh Alayhesalam, the same as Manu? Probably the Jews picked it up from Babylon, a loan-word from Indo-European.

"Hazrat Nooh Alayhesalam Ko 40 Saal ke Baad Eylaane Nabuwat ka Huqm diya gaya Aur Saare Nawso(950) Saal Aap Apni Koum me Thehre Aur Apni Koum ko Tablig Farmaayi,

Tufaan ke baad Aap 250 Saal Zinda rahe, Aap ki Qul Umar 1240 Saal he, Agarche usme Aur Koul bhi he Leqin Jyada Tour par ishi Koul ko Sahi kaha gaya he.
(Tafseere Saawi, Jild-1, Safa-682)
(Tazkiratul Ambiya Alayhesalam, Safa-89)"
Hazrat Nooh ki kashti ki kahani story Hindi Urdu part 1 ? www.nabwi.com

The Story of Hazrat Nooh and his Boat
(When Hazrat Nooh (PBUH) was forty years old, the was called upon to his duty as Allah's messenger, and he taught his tribe for 950 years. After the storm, he was alive for 250 years, his age totals to 1200 years, although different descriptions exist but generally this is said to be true.
(Tafseere Saawi, Book-1, Page-682)
(Tazkiratul Ambiya Alayhesalam, Page-89))

I think there is a problem here. If Noah was 40 years old when he was called upon to be a messenger, then he taught his tribe for 910 years and not 950 years.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; September 5th, 2017 at 06:55 PM.
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