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Old September 9th, 2017, 05:09 AM   #11
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Thank you.Wikipedia indicates 600 000 chinese soldiers engaged....It is not serious,because just 25 % of the troops of the South have been engaged:130 000,150 000 big maximum.Wikipedia indicates 60 000 killed and wounded,but it incluses 10 000 prisoners restitued a few months later.
For the vietnamese troops,Wikipedia indicates 250 000 men.....It is not serious,because the number total of men in the north is 150 000 included the irregular troops of garde fronteers and milicians.With 75 000 irregular mobilized,just 30 % of them have fought:20 000-30 000 men;for the 75 000 soldiers mobilized,just little units have fought in march.
The losses indicated by Wikipédia are completely fantaisits:360 000 men !!!
The vietnamese troops (irregulars and soldiers) have lost 15 000 men,but we must evaluate the civil casualties at 10 000 people.
It was the blood Deng Xiaoping needs to influence the chinese politic.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 05:13 AM   #12
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The chinese army which penetrated in the Tonkin,130 000 men, had no experience and was easily stopped after two weeks by the 25 000 men of the "garde fronteers" and of the batallions of the "reserve milicians".The vietnamese were so sure of their victory that they continue to send good troops to Cambodia.
As declared on french TV the general Bigeard,the chinese army was going to the catastrof.The total casualties were near 50 000 killed and disappeared....
Chinese army in the 1979 war numbered 30,0000, with death of ~7000-8000. viet nam direct death loss was estimated to be over 15000
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It was the blood Deng Xiaoping needs to influence the chinese politic.
that has nothing to do with it.
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In France, Mr Courdy (FR3 TV) responsive Asia in the DESS Diplomacy of Mr Zorgbibe (University Paris XI) has explained to us that the chinese disastrous ofensive has been decided by Deng Xiaoping,who wanted to bury definitively Hua Guofeng and to prepare a new economic mutation.
which is extremely confusing.......because....how? the big question is just HOW?
the logic is just....cannot be understood.....

Last edited by heylouis; September 9th, 2017 at 05:24 AM.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 06:31 AM   #13

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heylouis,

Wasn’t at the time, and even after the invasion, China an allied and supporter of Pol Pot, against a Vietnam closer to the Soviet Union line?
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Old September 9th, 2017, 06:41 AM   #14
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heylouis,

Wasn’t at the time, and even after the invasion, China an allied and supporter of Pol Pot, against a Vietnam closer to the Soviet Union line?
i just read a report elsewhere on the data of chinese foreign support.
it summarized that in the whole 1980s, ~40% of chinese foreign support went to indo-china, ~90% of this fraction went to viet nam, the rest being laos and combodia. as a matter of fact, the support to viet nam still went on until Nov 1978, when viet nam-soviet union declared military alliance, before which viet nam already pushed into chinese territory.

since 1979, chinese foreign support to combodia directly went to Sihanouk.

you can hardly call pol pot a chinese ally, which assumed getting support more than viet nam. he got money simply he was the head of the combodian government

Last edited by heylouis; September 9th, 2017 at 06:47 AM.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 06:44 AM   #15

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i just read a report elsewhere on the data of chinese foreign support.
“elsewhere”?
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Old September 9th, 2017, 06:46 AM   #16
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“elsewhere”?
chinese languaged.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #17

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chinese languaged.
I don’t think that is against the rules to post a link to a Chinese source. Even if many of us here, including me, don’t read Chinese.

Anyway, if such records are public, it will be interesting to see where went the Chinese help between the fall of the South Vietnam and the invasion of Cambodia.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #18
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I don’t think that is against the rules to post a link to a Chinese source. Even if many of us here, including me, don’t read Chinese.

Anyway, if such records are public, it will be interesting to see where went the Chinese help between the fall of the South Vietnam and the invasion of Cambodia.
but i will have to translate it.....
it is too cost to translate a big table, most importantly with all its citations.

the problem is not about whether it is public or secrete. most of the foreign support data are public, but you have to collect them, the foreign department does not do the job of statistics to help history researches.
and that is why the translation could be hard, i don't want to copy and translate all the statistics made there by the researcher. i just wanted to know a brief numbering...

you can try to search english publications of chinese researchers. there must be some because english journals usually are more attractive to authors with higher impact factors.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #19
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Thank you very much.In fact,the chinese government decided to invade the Tonkin in the purpose to make a strong pression on the vietnamese government, and to oblige him to evacuate Cambodia,with conséquences to save and restablish the government of the Kampuchéa democratic (?) of the "comrade" Pol Pot.
It was a sad and lamentable tentative to imitate the french who occupied Formose in 1885 and forced China to retire her troops from the Tonkin.
But,as explained the general Bigeard,the difference is that the vietnamese troops were continually in war since 1945 and that China did nothing since the end of the war of Corea.These 25 years of inactivity are the principal reason of the defeat.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #20

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but i will have to translate it.....
it is too cost to translate a big table, most importantly with all its citations.

the problem is not about whether it is public or secrete. most of the foreign support data are public, but you have to collect them, the foreign department does not do the job of statistics to help history researches.
and that is why the translation could be hard, i don't want to copy and translate all the statistics made there by the researcher. i just wanted to know a brief numbering...

you can try to search english publications of chinese researchers. there must be some because english journals usually are more attractive to authors with higher impact factors.
I just requested the link of the “elsewhere” that you mentioned, not the translation. Although not particularly useful to everyone, I already posted here in the Forum at request or as sources links to sources in other languages.

As a side note, the number of Portugueses that know Chinese (Mandarin) decreased after Macao transition (I had many relatives and friends there), but it is now rising again. The same doesn’t happen with the Cantonese.

Anyway to short, if you have available, it would be interesting to see the Chinese foreign help to those two countries between 1975 and 1979.
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