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Old December 13th, 2017, 05:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
Even a cursory glance at the history will tell you that tens of thousands of Ming troops fought in battle, for example at Ulsan, where Ming troops outnumbered the Koreans four to one. Or at Pyongyang, or at Byeokjegwan.
The battle of Ulsan Castle was an unnecessary battle that was not necessary because of the battle that the Ming Dynasty forced at the end of the war.
Because the Japanese army had already withdrawn all the way to the south coast, and when Toyotomi Hideyoshi died seven months later, the Japanese army should have withdrawn
Most of the siege was carried out by the Joseon army, so most of the 15,000 killed were Joseon.
As a result, the Chosun and Ming Dynasty Armies are fighting to defeat Ulsan.
The battle of Ulsan castle had no effect on the war.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 05:49 AM   #12

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The Ming forces participated in all the sieges of the wajo, and also in the Japanese attack at Namwon. The Ming also saved Joseon during the 2nd invasion by stopping the Japanese advance at Chiksan. The Japanese captured Chiksan but after Chiksan it was clear that a large Ming army was guarding Seoul, so the Japanese, being aware of this, and further weakened by Yi's victory at Myongyang, decided to retreat to the wajo.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 06:12 AM   #13

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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
The battle of Ulsan Castle was an unnecessary battle that was not necessary because of the battle that the Ming Dynasty forced at the end of the war.
Because the Japanese army had already withdrawn all the way to the south coast, and when Toyotomi Hideyoshi died seven months later, the Japanese army should have withdrawn
Most of the siege was carried out by the Joseon army, so most of the 15,000 killed were Joseon.
As a result, the Chosun and Ming Dynasty Armies are fighting to defeat Ulsan.
The battle of Ulsan castle had no effect on the war.
Oh, so all the battles the Ming participated in were unnecessary and only the ones that the great Korean soldiers fought in mattered? Let me guess, the sources for these are great Korean philosophers.

Without Ming troops, far more Korean noses would have ended up in the Mimizuka.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 06:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Maki View Post
The Ming forces participated in all the sieges of the wajo, and also in the Japanese attack at Namwon. The Ming also saved Joseon during the 2nd invasion by stopping the Japanese advance at Chiksan. The Japanese captured Chiksan but after Chiksan it was clear that a large Ming army was guarding Seoul, so the Japanese, being aware of this, and further weakened by Yi's victory at Myongyang, decided to retreat to the wajo.
In 1597, the Japanese army repulsed Joseon with 150,000 troops.(1597.8)
However, the Battle of Chiksan was a small battle where only Ming army 5,000 and japan army 5000 participated in the battle and there were about 230 deaths(200 Ming soldiers and 30 Japanese soldiers died) and ended with a draw.(1597.09)
The Japanese army invaded 150,000 people, but only 30 soldiers were killed.
Therefore, the battle of Chiksan can not be the reason for japan troop's withdrawal.so It was not a important battle.

The reason for the retreat of the Japanese army was a ROARING CURRENTS straits battle(1597.10)
The Korean Navy destroyed most of the 330 Japanese warships with 13 warships.
For that reason, the Japanese military had retreated to the south coast because of fear that the supply route would be cut off(1597.11)

Namwon-castle battle was a defeated battle and the Ming army provided the cause of the defeat.(1597.8)
Because The Ming army ignored the proposal of the Korean army to fight in the fortress of the mountain in favor of defense
and The Ming army wanted to fight on Namwon-castle of the plain in favor of the attacking Japanese army

Most of the battle involving the Ming army was defeated
and The Ming army provided the reason for the defeat.
Therefore, I do not see much of Ming's army major.

Last edited by common sence; December 13th, 2017 at 07:09 AM.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 07:21 AM   #15
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The majority of the Japanese ships at Myongnyang (~200 or so) were lightly armed or unarmed transports. Only 130 or so were actual warships. Only a small amount of the Japanese ships were actually destroyed, many of them from colliding or otherwise wrecking.

Also Yi had 12-13 full-sized warships. He had a larger number of smaller auxiliary ships as well.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 07:24 AM   #16

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Chiksan was important because it stopped a general retreat of the Sino-Koreans which saw them abandon Kongju, the capital of Chungchong and Chonju. Chiksan was the furthest point of the Japanese advance in the second invasion. And if the Joseon troops were so good, then why were the Ming troops sent to hold off the Japanese, the move that led to the battle of Chiksan. Thing is, Korea would be done if it weren't for the Ming intervention, the country was almost completely in the hands of the Japanese. The Japanese won a lot of battles sure, but the Ming army turned the strategic initiative from the Japanese to the Sino-Joseon. I mentioned Myongyang, but don't ignore the strategic situation on land.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 09:40 AM   #17
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If the Korean military was so successful in doing whatever it is that they do before Chinese intervention, then Kiyomasa would not have been able to cross into Manchuria (then immediately realizing what a terrible idea that was), while managing to imprison Korean royalties along the way.

Even Korean sources detail the inefficiencies of their own armies, written by Korean officials themselves. If you want a useless battle, the Battle of Myeongnyang was useless, and its 'victory', if you can call it that, was exploited mercilessly for propaganda purposes. If the Korean military was as cracked up as you believe they are then why did... oh nevermind.

Sir, are you trolling?

Last edited by Tak; December 13th, 2017 at 09:49 AM.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #18
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If the Korean military was so successful in doing whatever it is that they do before Chinese intervention, then Kiyomasa would not have been able to cross into Manchuria (then immediately realizing what a terrible idea that was), while managing to imprison Korean royalties along the way.
Kato was able to do both of those because the people of Hamgyong cooperated with his wishes because they resented the royal court. Many among them were officials who had fallen out of favor and been exiled there.

Remember it was Korean rebel leader Kuk Kyongin who handed the princes to Kato.

Quote:
Even Korean sources detail the inefficiencies of their own armies, written by Korean officials themselves. If you want a useless battle, the Battle of Myeongnyang was useless, and its 'victory', if you can call it that, was exploited mercilessly for propaganda purposes. If the Korean military was as cracked up as you believe they are then why did... oh nevermind.
How was Myongnyang a "useless" battle?

Last edited by Haakbus; December 13th, 2017 at 10:10 AM.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 10:16 AM   #19
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How was Myongnyang a "useless" battle?
Because if the ultimate goal of a Korean victory in that battle was to ensure hindrance to Japanese logistics, it was not successful. Victory yes, objective however, not accomplished.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 10:22 AM   #20
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Because if the ultimate goal of a Korean victory in that battle was to ensure hindrance to Japanese logistics, it was not successful. Victory yes, objective however, not accomplished.
The objective was to prevent them from entering the Yellow Sea so they couldn't have a supply line there. Which is what they did.

Last edited by Haakbus; December 13th, 2017 at 10:39 AM.
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