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Old December 13th, 2017, 10:42 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
Most of the great victories were handled by the Joseon Army. In the first battle of Jinju, 10,000 Japanese soldiers were killed and even though they were defeated in the second battle, they killed nearly 20,000 people. The Chosun Army took charge of numerous battles including the battle of Sanseong, Ilchi, and Unchichi. The Chosun army was never weak.
I guess Wangli should have listened to his advisers and let Korea handle her own affairs. I mean after all, the great Chosun army was powerful and great and numerous, they wouldn't go to the Yalu river begging for safe heaven right?
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Old December 13th, 2017, 11:40 AM   #22

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The Korean army was so awesome that it needed Ming general Li Rusong to recapture Pyongyang.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #23
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Not to mention Li Rusong was of Korean descent. I believe his placement of assignment during the war was no coincidence.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
in April 1592, Japan invaded Joseon,Korea dynasty with 200,000 troops.

At that time, Japan's military strength was enormous.
Throughout the centuries of civil war, soldiers were elite and armed with Western weapons.
They sold half a million people to their western merchants as slaves and bought guns and gunpowder

Because there was no war for 200 years, Joseon was weaker in military strength and military numbers were few.

In addition, because Japan had never invaded a large-scale invasion in history, the military power of Joseon was focused on defending the nomadic people in the north
Japan has surprise attack with 200,000 troops, Within two months, the Japanese army captured Seoul and advanced to Pyongyang (now the capital of North Korea).

But as the hurries came on, the rear was vulnerable to enemy attacks

The embarrassing Korean government for two months soon began counterattacking.
In the battle of Jinju castle in the rear(South Central region of Korea), 3,000 defenders fought against 30,000 Japanese soldiers and killed 10,000 people and won (October 1592)
Many other battles have begun to win Japanese troops, and many people have voluntarily started fighting Japanese troops.
In the sea, General Admiral Yi Sun-shin launched three times, sinking 300 Japanese warships and taking over the maritime rights completely

The Japanese soldiers who lost all combat on land and sea were in trouble because they could not receive supplies.

They reached Pyongyang in three months, but they could not advance anymore.
Because the supply route was cut off and starved.
At that time, Ming dynasty sent 50,000 troops to help recapture Pyongyang (January 1593)
However, Ming Dynasty Army was defeated by the Japanese in the vicinity of Seoul and was no longer involved in the war.

The Japanese army gathered in Seoul in a year and found more than 100,000 of the 200,000 soldiers were killed.

Three thousand Koreans army, who want to recapture Seoul, camped near Seoul.
The Japanese forces attacked with 30,000 to defeat the Joseon army, but were defeated and 10,000 Japanese soldiers were killed (February 1593)
The Japanese soldiers were defeated in battle, and the food was burned by the Korean commandos.
So the Japanese army abandoned Seoul and started to retreat to the south coast.

The reason that the Joseon army was able to defeat a large number of Japanese soldiers in small numbers was because there were developed weapons
There were many modern weapons such as grenades, cannons, multi-guns, and Cremora.

After five years of negotiations, war was reopened in 1597.
At that time, Admiral Yi Sun-shin was dismissed by the wrong judgment of Chosun King andAdmiral Won Kyun was appointed
Admiral Won Kyun was incapacitated, defeated in battle with Japan in a few months, lost most of its 120 warships, and survived only 12 ships
The Japanese army began to advance into the interior of Korea.
At that time, Admiral Yi reinstated again and won a battle with 333 Japanese warships with 12 ships.
Most ships of the Japanese warships were destroyed,10000 japan army killed but in Joseon only one warrior was killed

The Japanese soldiers who were cut off from the supply route started to retreat again.

Japanese warlord Toyotomi Hideyoshi died (August 1598), and Japanese troops began withdrawing
However, General Admiral Yi did not intend to send Japanese troops, and in the south coast, he fought 450 Japanese warships and destroyed 400 ships and died in battle
This ended the Invasion of Japan in 1598 year.

The Ming Dynasty sent a troop, but there was not much that contributed to the war in particular.
However, I am grateful for the fact that it helped to reclaim Pyongyang and provided large-scale support for food.
I have question for common sence. Please *NO ONE but common sence* answer question. Question is, Why did Japan invade Korea in April 1592?
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Old December 14th, 2017, 02:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
Most of the battles were carried out by the Joseon army, and the Ming army was only fighting Pyongyang. Moreover, because the supply route was cut off, the Japanese army of Pyongyang should have withdrawn. The Ming army has just advanced the time of the return to Pyongyang. Could you tell me what the Ming Dynasty army was? If there is a major in the Ming army, I will admit it.
Well, in a sense they did fought the majority of land battle with the Japanese, only most of the battles before the involvement of Ming army end up with the Korean army losing anyway.

Those battles that Korean won were either:
1) Naval engagement (Hansan island etc)
2) Defensive victory (Haengju & Jinju, plus Jinju was later lost anyway)
3) Most likely won with/because of/thanks to heavy involvement of Korean righteous army (Jinju & Cheongju & Haengju).
4) Ended badly for the contributing general (like 신각/申恪, or Yi Sun Sin during interbellum)
5) Several (or all) of the above.

That's not a good showing of the might of Korean army at all...

Last edited by wolflance; December 14th, 2017 at 03:52 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 05:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
The Ming dynasty didn't contribute much to the war?

Without the intervention of the Ming, Korea wouldn't have been able to do anything to the Japanese on land.

Among the 105 battles in total, the Chosun army won the battle 65 times and lost 40 times.
In other words, the leading role that drove Japan to the south coast is the Korean army and navy
The Japanese military is estimated to have killed up to 240,000 people.
This was the victory of the Korean army, so the Japanese army retreated to the south coast.

On the other hand, the battle of the Ming army was only eight times. Including combat with the Chosun army.
Meaningful battle is the battle of Pyongyang. The rest is defeat or draw
Even in the battle of Pyongyang, Ming army won the Japanese army that is less than 10,000 troops.

but, you consider the Chosun Army a poor medicine.
It means your cognitive ability is poor and your argument is unreliable.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 05:34 AM   #27
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In 1597, the Japanese army repulsed Joseon with 150,000 troops.(1597.8)
However, the Battle of Chiksan was a small battle where only Ming army 5,000 and japan army 5000 participated in the battle and there were about 230 deaths(200 Ming soldiers and 30 Japanese soldiers died) and ended with a draw.(1597.09)
The Japanese army invaded 150,000 people, but only 30 soldiers were killed.
Therefore, the battle of Chiksan can not be the reason for japan troop's withdrawal.so It was not a important battle.
Annals of Seonjo recorded some 500~600 Japanese killed, PLUS 30+ heads taken. So even Korean source doesn't agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by common sence View Post
Namwon-castle battle was a defeated battle and the Ming army provided the cause of the defeat.(1597.8)
Because The Ming army ignored the proposal of the Korean army to fight in the fortress of the mountain in favor of defense
and The Ming army wanted to fight on Namwon-castle of the plain in favor of the attacking Japanese army
Because Ming were cavalrymen and ill-suited to fight in the mountain? Come to think of it, weren't the Korean at Namwon cavalrymen too?

Why give up one good advantage you have over the Japanese and hide in the mountain?



PS: This has become something of an outdated-joke among the Chinese netizen...
It is said that by statistic, Song Dynasty won 70% of its battles against a foreign power. 70%!!! Very impressive isn't it? Song army so stronk!

Yet it is still considered one of the militarily weakest Chinese dynasty. Reason? It scored that many victories because it was repeatedly getting invaded. Its numerous victories ultimately didn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

The same logic, well, apply to Joseon army (the government one, not the righteous army) too.

Last edited by wolflance; December 14th, 2017 at 05:51 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 05:45 AM   #28
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How did the Ming dynasty stop contributing to the war effort after Byeokjegwan? They remained in Korea for the duration of the war, even in the battle of Noryang, Yi's final battle, which you have mentioned, the Ming warships played a part in the Allied victory. Also, Joseon government was eager to sign peace with Japan exactly because the presence of Ming troops on Korean soil proved to be troublesome to the Korean government. In many of the battles of the Imjin War, there were more Chinese soldiers fighting the Japanese than there were Korean soldiers.

Japanese decision to evacute Seoul had, although influenced by the defeat at Haengju, much more to do with the fact that the Japanese army was in terrible shape, almost two-thirds of its initial strength was gone and don't forget that it was a Ming army that entered into Seoul.
One year after the war, the Japanese army gathered all the troops into Seoul, the Japanese army realized that 100,000 people were dead.
The Ming Dynasty killed only 5,000 of them in the battle of Pyongyang.

Did the Japanese withdraw from Seoul because of the Ming army?
Why did the Japanese withdraw from the Ming Dynasty when they won the Ming Dynasty in the byeogjegwan battle?
Your claim does not make sense.

The Japanese army lost 10,000 to 20,000 people to the Joseon army in the Hanseong Mountain area Near Seoul.
And all the food was burned by the Korean army commandos.
So the Japanese withdrew from Seoul
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Old December 14th, 2017, 06:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolflance View Post
Annals of Seonjo recorded some 500~600 Japanese killed, PLUS 30+ heads taken. So even Korean source doesn't agree with you.


Because Ming were cavalrymen and ill-suited to fight in the mountain? Come to think of it, weren't the Korean at Namwon cavalrymen too?

Why give up one good advantage you have over the Japanese and hide in the mountain?



PS: This has become something of an outdated-joke among the Chinese netizen...
It is said that by statistic, Song Dynasty won 70% of its battles against a foreign power. 70%!!! Very impressive isn't it? Song army so stronk!

Yet it is still considered one of the militarily weakest Chinese dynasty. Reason? It scored that many victories because it was repeatedly getting invaded. Its numerous victories ultimately didn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

The same logic, well, apply to Joseon army (the government one, not the righteous army) too.
So even Korean source doesn't agree with you.
-> This is written in Japanese books.

Song dynasty beat 70%?
The Song dynasty was deprived of huge territory by kitai and Mongolia.
However, Chosun preserved the territory. Song Dynasty and Chosun are different.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:04 AM   #30
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However, Chosun preserved the territory. Song Dynasty and Chosun are different.
Because Korea surrendered. Or are you in the belief that Korea was actually a 'vigilant ally' of the Great Mongol Empire?
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