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Old December 14th, 2017, 08:33 AM   #31

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One year after the war, the Japanese army gathered all the troops into Seoul, the Japanese army realized that 100,000 people were dead.
The Ming Dynasty killed only 5,000 of them in the battle of Pyongyang.
So? The Koreans didn't kill a 100,000 Japanese, the Japanese army was devastated by disease as well. Plus the Joseon war minister Yi Hang-bok said that the intervention by the Ming is the only way Korea can survive.

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Did the Japanese withdraw from Seoul because of the Ming army?
Why did the Japanese withdraw from the Ming Dynasty when they won the Ming Dynasty in the byeogjegwan battle?
Your claim does not make sense.
Because their strategic situation worsened. Yes, losses suffered at Haengju played a part, but so did the Ming army under Li Rusong that once again started moving towards Seoul after hearing the news from Haengju. Just because the Japanese defeated the Ming once doesn't mean that everything changed, plus it's not like the Japanese eliminated the majority of the Ming army. Li brought 43,000 men into Korea, the Ming losses at Byeokjegwan were 6,000.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 04:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
your cognitive ability is poor
Implies they nearing Zen enlightenment, no problem with that

Last edited by nakamichi; December 14th, 2017 at 04:17 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #33
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the Ming losses at Byeokjegwan were 6,000.
I believe this issue has been brought up previously but the Japanese sources heavily trumped up the Ming casualties/numerical superiority and vice versa. According to《經略復國要編》the total number of Ming participants consisted of 5,000 crack cavalry and 264 casualties. On the other hand Korean sources such as 《懲毖錄》or 《宣祖實錄》only mention the initial 3,000 retinue under Li Rusong with 1,500 dead.

Off topic but does anyone have period artwork or primary sources detailing what kind of armors were used by Li Rusong's retinue cavalry?
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:48 PM   #34

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Yeah, I have read about that, but that only really strengthens my point.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 09:33 PM   #35
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So even Korean source doesn't agree with you.
-> This is written in Japanese books.
So Annals of Seonjo is a Japanese book now? Wow, that's new to me.

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Song dynasty beat 70%?
The Song dynasty was deprived of huge territory by kitai and Mongolia.
However, Chosun preserved the territory. Song Dynasty and Chosun are different.
You mean the Joseon army kept WINNING, until they lost seven out of eight provinces to the Japanese in two month? That certainly sound impressive...Wow, truly some territory they perserved there.

And the only one they didn't lose was successfully defended by...you guess it, Righteous army! It should be pretty clear by now that true Korean warrior spirit rest within the righteous army volunteers (and Yi's navy), not the army.

Last edited by wolflance; December 14th, 2017 at 10:51 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 10:17 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
Did the Japanese withdraw from Seoul because of the Ming army?
Why did the Japanese withdraw from the Ming Dynasty when they won the Ming Dynasty in the byeogjegwan battle?
Your claim does not make sense.
After the Japanese slowed the Ming advance at byeogjegwan, they almost immediately went back to the offensive, attacking Haengju (which failed).

So they clearly saw Ming as a serious threat that needed to be thwarted first, before they could resume business as usual and continue the invasion.

(If you are curious, Japanese army abandoned Kaesong because they wanted to concentrate their force in anticipation of a major Ming offensive, so Kaesong definitely count as Ming contribution to the war. By that, I mean two out of three most important Korean cities were liberated thanks to Ming involvement).

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And all the food was burned by the Korean army commandos.
So the Japanese withdrew from Seoul
I am sorry, but Ryu Seong-Ryong still found plenty of food in Seoul AFTER Japanese force withdrew from Seoul in 1593. Just read Jingbirok (A Korean source penned by Ryu himself).

If Korean commando really burned all the food, why was there still food in Seoul? where did those food come from? conjured out of thin air by Ryu Seong-Ryong?

So Japanese withdrawal from Seoul had nothing to do with the "Korean commando" that probably never existed, but thanks to the combined effort of Yi Sun Sin navy and righteous army.

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Originally Posted by Wansui View Post
I believe this issue has been brought up previously but the Japanese sources heavily trumped up the Ming casualties/numerical superiority and vice versa. According to《經略復國要編》the total number of Ming participants consisted of 5,000 crack cavalry and 264 casualties. On the other hand Korean sources such as 《懲毖錄》or 《宣祖實錄》only mention the initial 3,000 retinue under Li Rusong with 1,500 dead.

Off topic but does anyone have period artwork or primary sources detailing what kind of armors were used by Li Rusong's retinue cavalry?
I believe both sides lost somewhere around 1500~2000+ troops during that engagement.

@Maki
Ming Dynasty sent about 36,000 troops to Korea, and suffered some 1,000+ casualties during the liberation of Pyongyang, as well as some unspecified number at Byeogjegwan (let's assume 3000 for the sake of it), so it still had roughly 32,000 available troops in total. In contrast Seoul had about 5~60,000 Japanese troops if I am not mistaken.

Last edited by wolflance; December 14th, 2017 at 11:37 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:43 AM   #37

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but, you consider the Chosun Army a poor medicine.
It means your cognitive ability is poor and your argument is unreliable.

Since you now choose to make ad hominem remarks and personal attacks, consider this a warning. If you continue to do so, you will be banned.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:51 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by common sence View Post
Song dynasty beat 70%?
The Song dynasty was deprived of huge territory by kitai and Mongolia.
However, Chosun preserved the territory. Song Dynasty and Chosun are different.
Just to update your information, the Song and the Khitans fought to a draw. That is why they are the brotherly states. The Liao was established long before the Song, and while the Song FAILED to invade Liao, the huge territory was lost during the fragmentation period.

The Southern Song was eventually defeated by the Mongols, but so did Korea, so I don't see your point.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 06:35 AM   #39
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The Southern Song was eventually defeated by the Mongols, but so did Korea, so I don't see your point.
Because he probably believes that Korea 'allied' itself with the Mongols after becoming 'tired' of all the Mongol incursions.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Because he probably believes that Korea 'allied' itself with the Mongols after becoming 'tired' of all the Mongol incursions.
Great Korean-Mongol brotherhood, blah blah blah blah....
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