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Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:44 PM   #191

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Originally Posted by Aatreya View Post
It absolutely does not matter that you are convinced. Truth for the sake of Truth.
Really?

Aahhh. That's good then. That wud be the correct attitude, for a true scholar. In that case, you shud always be able to stay cool & calm then. But I somehow sense that it is not that way with you. I always feel a certain kind of temperature in many, if not most, of your responses. Cud be becos, in your case, it is not really 'Truth for the sake of Truth', but more like, 'Winning for the sake of Winning'.

Perhaps, for you, it is not really about satyam eva jayate, but rather, quite on the contrary, more about jaya eva satyamte. Or perhaps that shud be jayam eva satyate. Excuse my Sanskrit, BTW.

Hah. Now, on second thoughts, for you, I believe jayam eva jayate wud in fact work even better. Splendid.

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Old January 2nd, 2018, 08:10 PM   #192

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Again, to make things clear to you, at any point in time, either OIT is true or AIT/AMT is true.
Now, that is really oversimplifying things. I don't know what you mean by 'at any time point in time'.

Are you trying to say, 1 year? 1 decade? 1 century? 1 millennium? Or many millennia?

No, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, so it is never an 'either this, or that' situation. Like I said before, there is an entire range of possibilities, ranging from, 'zero % OIT, 100% AIT/AMT' to zero% AIT/AMT, 100% OIT'. The jury is still out there.

And then, you also hv to contend with yet other competing alternative theories, e.g. OAT, which is possiblyly a stronger rival to AIT/AMT than OIT.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:36 AM   #193
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Sounds like a familiar theme.
Well the Jews concocted a story for their scripture ( even found the missing bits they needed in a cave ) and that was the best thing they ever did ... for the continuance of their people and a sense of solidarity, etc . It helped them and enabled them to survive. Even some rabbis will admit that.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:38 AM   #194
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Unfortunately, you are not equipped to make an argument properly. The only thing I see in your posts is personal diatribes and meaningless generalizations.

In a debate, one has to take a position that one believes is right.
You see ! There is your problem ... its all about your belief .

One should take the position that the evidence directs one to .
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 10:56 AM   #195
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Nothing like that. They were recording what was the situation in their time. That, exactly, was what the people were doing at an earlier time when they talked about a dawn lingering for thirty days, the sun unyoking his chariot in the middle of the sky, Aditi having seven fully developed sons and the eighth being undeveloped, and needing Indra to fight Dasas and Dasyus to bring back the sun imprisoned by them and obstructing the flow of waters and spring. That is why RigVeda is more important historically than as a scripture.

That is what the Zoroastrians in Balkh (probably Zoroaster's area) also remembered. A flood by snow, a
nd Thraetona needing to kill Azi Dahāk to release the waters.

For you (since you are familiar with them), Specul8, RigVeda is none other than a Dream-time story (very much like what the Australian and other aboriginals remembered all over the world - their lore). It is the Aryan Iliad or Edda or the Aryan Epic of Gilgamesh.

Haha, and when I go to the post next to yours, I find Tornada using exactly the same words - "No. nothing like that".
You know my thoughts on that ; it may not need refer to latitude in the Arctic but a location effected by both altitude and ' climate change' ...... a series of bad winters coming ;

" Knowledge of Central Asia's climate and climate changes during the past 12,000 years can assist in an understanding of the historical periods in Central Asia. For instance, in an event called the Younger Dryas, the earth is known to have experienced a sudden cooling starting 12,800 years from the present, with the cooling lasting about 1,200 years. In addition, there is evidence of more recent and shorter cooling spells of, say, 100 years. Different regions could have experienced different degrees of change and a severe cooling event could also have been regional rather than global. If the location of Airyana Vaeja was an area like the Pamirs, a 5 to 10 degree C drop in average temperatures would have been sufficient to make winter life very harsh (Vendidad, a book of the Zoroastrian scriptures, chapter 1.2 and 2.22). We are informed by the Avesta, that after the change in climate, the warm months (the rapithwan months) in Airyana Vaeja were shortened from the normal seven months to two months in duration (Vendidad 1.3, notes in Vendidad Sada and Bundahishn 25 - the warm months being those when the ground waters are cooler than the surface)."

Aryan Prehistory

Last edited by specul8; January 3rd, 2018 at 11:01 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:35 PM   #196

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The problem is that it does not tally with what is mentioned in RigVeda, does not tally with archaeology, does not take them to North of Caspian Sea and does not connect with the Indo-Europeans in Europe. They remain Indo-Iranian only. It does not explain the mythological and linguistic connect between East and West.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:37 PM   #197
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You see ! There is your problem ... its all about your belief .

One should take the position that the evidence directs one to .
Genius, once you take a position, you will argue with evidences (or with no evidences as in your case).
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:39 PM   #198
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The problem is that it does not tally with what is mentioned in RigVeda, does not tally with archaeology, does not take them to North of Caspian Sea and does not connect with the Indo-Europeans in Europe. They remain Indo-Iranian only. It does not explain the mythological and linguistic connect between East and West.
We have plenty of archaeology in the Indian subcontinent - Bhiranna, Mehrgarh, Rakhigarhi, etc.. Need more?

We have two seas and an ocean too, if those were what you were missing.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:42 PM   #199
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Now, that is really oversimplifying things. I don't know what you mean by 'at any time point in time'.

Are you trying to say, 1 year? 1 decade? 1 century? 1 millennium? Or many millennia?

No, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, so it is never an 'either this, or that' situation. Like I said before, there is an entire range of possibilities, ranging from, 'zero % OIT, 100% AIT/AMT' to zero% AIT/AMT, 100% OIT'. The jury is still out there.

And then, you also hv to contend with yet other competing alternative theories, e.g. OAT, which is possiblyly a stronger rival to AIT/AMT than OIT.
Either Aryans went out of India, or came into India, meaning their homeland is either India or not. It cannot be both. No issues, I know you have trouble understanding this.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 07:48 PM   #200
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Really?

Aahhh. That's good then. That wud be the correct attitude, for a true scholar. In that case, you shud always be able to stay cool & calm then. But I somehow sense that it is not that way with you. I always feel a certain kind of temperature in many, if not most, of your responses. Cud be becos, in your case, it is not really 'Truth for the sake of Truth', but more like, 'Winning for the sake of Winning'.

Perhaps, for you, it is not really about satyam eva jayate, but rather, quite on the contrary, more about jaya eva satyamte. Or perhaps that shud be jayam eva satyate. Excuse my Sanskrit, BTW.

Hah. Now, on second thoughts, for you, I believe jayam eva jayate wud in fact work even better. Splendid.
Satya is Jaya, Satya is Shiva, and Satya is everything. If your posts are anything to go by, we have enough evidence of your style of argument (0% substance and 100% noise).

It might be very hurting to some people, but the fact is that India is the homeland of IE.
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