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Old December 29th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by lexell View Post
The place where PIE originated could not have barley. It would not grow there without help of modern technology. PIE were pastoralists.
No they were not. IE originated in India, and barley grew there.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 10:14 PM   #52

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Oxyria digyna (mountain sorrel, wood sorrel, Alpine sorrel or Alpine mountain-sorrel) is a species of flowering plant in the buckwheat family (Polygonaceae). It is native to arctic regions and mountainous parts of the Northern Hemisphere. Mountain sorrel is common in the tundra of the Arctic. It typically grows in alpine meadows, scree, snow-bed sites and beside streams.

On the coast of Norway, the pollen of this plant has been found in peat bogs that are 12,600 years old, indicating that it must have been one of the first plants to colonise the area after the retreating ice age glaciers. The leaves of mountain sorrel have a fresh acidic taste and are rich in vitamin C, containing about 36 mg/100 g. They were used by the Inuit to prevent and cure scurvy, and can be used in salads. It is called qunguliq in Inuktitut. The above-ground parts of the plant are edible when cooked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyria_digyna

One thing is certain, what the Aryans knew as Barley was different from what today we know as Barley.

Last edited by Aupmanyav; December 29th, 2017 at 11:17 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:14 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
Oxyria digyna (mountain sorrel, wood sorrel, Alpine sorrel or Alpine mountain-sorrel) is a species of flowering plant in the buckwheat family (Polygonaceae). It is native to arctic regions and mountainous parts of the Northern Hemisphere. Mountain sorrel is common in the tundra of the Arctic. It typically grows in alpine meadows, scree, snow-bed sites and beside streams.

On the coast of Norway, the pollen of this plant has been found in peat bogs that are 12,600 years old, indicating that it must have been one of the first plants to colonise the area after the retreating ice age glaciers. The leaves of mountain sorrel have a fresh acidic taste and are rich in vitamin C, containing about 36 mg/100 g. They were used by the Inuit to prevent and cure scurvy, and can be used in salads. It is called qunguliq in Inuktitut. The above-ground parts of the plant are edible when cooked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyria_digyna

One thing is certain, what the Aryans knew as Barley was different from what today we know as Barley.
What?? How so?
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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:35 AM   #54
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People of Anatolia were responsible for spreading farming into Europe. There was also some gene flow from Anatolia. But the Indo-European and Indo-Iranic languages spread from Pontic-Caspian region. It's also evident from the very languages these people speak. Read the article I posted above.
What kind of people were these Anatolians who spread farming to Europe? What kind of language did they speak? Any connection to Indo-Europeans, though it took place at a much earlier time?

Last edited by kandal; December 30th, 2017 at 09:40 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #55
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It is nice and cold here. Lots of snow in Kashmir and Himalayas.There is wild grass in Tundra also. Grains are but grass seeds. The Sami eat cloudberry. And there was fish (Jhash in modern Sanskrit, I do not know how PIE people temed it). They may have depended more on non-vegetarian fare. No one starved in Aryanem Vaejo, the Urheimat.

"Rubus chamaemorus is a rhizomatous herb native to cool temperate, alpine, arctic tundra and boreal forest, producing amber-colored edible fruit similar to the raspberry or blackberry. English common names include cloudberry, bakeapple (in Newfoundland and Labrador), knotberry and knoutberry (in England), aqpik or low-bush salmonberry (in Alaska - not to be confused with true salmonberry, Rubus spectabilis), and averin or evron (in Scotland)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubus_chamaemorus

"Russians seem to have learned to make pel'meni from Finnic and Tatar peoples of the Taiga, the Urals and Siberia. The word means "ear-shaped bread" in Finnic languages such as Udmurt and Komi. In Siberia they were made in large quantities and stored safely frozen outside for several winter months. In mainland Russia, the term "Siberian Pel'meni" refers to pel'meni made with a mix of meats (whether the 45/35/20 mix mentioned above, pork, lamb, beef, or another ratio), rather than a single meat."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cuisine#Meat

Please note I am searching things and not claiming anything.
Good ... I am glad you are not claiming ear shaped bread made from meats are barley .


I am still going to refute you that Aryanem Vaejo was the Urheimat.

It was the 'first' listed in the Vendidad, and 'the best and most beautiful land' but Urheimat ? Naaaah .

Last edited by specul8; December 30th, 2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:10 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
Oxyria digyna (mountain sorrel, wood sorrel, Alpine sorrel or Alpine mountain-sorrel) is a species of flowering plant in the buckwheat family (Polygonaceae). It is native to arctic regions and mountainous parts of the Northern Hemisphere. Mountain sorrel is common in the tundra of the Arctic. It typically grows in alpine meadows, scree, snow-bed sites and beside streams.

On the coast of Norway, the pollen of this plant has been found in peat bogs that are 12,600 years old, indicating that it must have been one of the first plants to colonise the area after the retreating ice age glaciers. The leaves of mountain sorrel have a fresh acidic taste and are rich in vitamin C, containing about 36 mg/100 g. They were used by the Inuit to prevent and cure scurvy, and can be used in salads. It is called qunguliq in Inuktitut. The above-ground parts of the plant are edible when cooked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyria_digyna
I grow and eat sorrel and it is as described above . Not like a grain at all , although it might be in that 'family'. The leaves are eaten, not the seeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
One thing is certain, what the Aryans knew as Barley was different from what today we know as Barley.
Yes, 'Arctic Barley' is actually a leafy green vegetable ....

But Vedic Indian barley is a grain .... how things change over a few thousand years and kilometers
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:12 PM   #57
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What?? How so?
Because ... he declared it so .

If that is good enough for you to do ..... then you should accept it from him .
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:46 PM   #58

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Originally Posted by specul8 View Post
I grow and eat sorrel and it is as described above . Not like a grain at all , although it might be in that 'family'. The leaves are eaten, not the seeds.
We eat young corn, just plain boiled, or gravied with coconut cream, curry etc. as a vegetable. Including the grain, the cob, the outer leafy wrapping & all.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:56 PM   #59

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Originally Posted by kandal View Post
What kind of people were these Anatolians who spread farming to Europe? What kind of language did they speak? Any connection to Indo-Europeans, though it took place at a much earlier time?
Re-extracted from post #1:

According to Renfrew (2004), Indo-European spread in the following steps:

Around 6500 BC: Pre-PIE, in Anatolia, splits into Anatolian and Archaic PIE, the language of the Pre-PIE farmers who migrate to Europe in the initial farming dispersal. Archaic PIE languages occur in the Balkans (Starčevo–Kőrös culture), in the Danube valley (Linear Pottery culture), and possibly in the Bug-Dniestr area (Eastern Linear pottery culture).

Around 5000 BC: Archaic PIE splits into Northwestern Indo-European (the ancestor of Italic, Celtic, and Germanic), in the Danube valley, Balkan PIE (corresponding to Gimbutas' Old European culture) and Early Steppe PIE (ancestor of Tocharian).

Last edited by Dreamhunter; December 30th, 2017 at 12:59 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
Re-extracted from post #1:

According to Renfrew (2004), Indo-European spread in the following steps:

Around 6500 BC: Pre-PIE, in Anatolia, splits into Anatolian and Archaic PIE, the language of the Pre-PIE farmers who migrate to Europe in the initial farming dispersal. Archaic PIE languages occur in the Balkans (Starčevo–Kőrös culture), in the Danube valley (Linear Pottery culture), and possibly in the Bug-Dniestr area (Eastern Linear pottery culture).

Around 5000 BC: Archaic PIE splits into Northwestern Indo-European (the ancestor of Italic, Celtic, and Germanic), in the Danube valley, Balkan PIE (corresponding to Gimbutas' Old European culture) and Early Steppe PIE (ancestor of Tocharian).
Does all this mean that Anatolia is the ancestral homeland of Indo-Europeans?
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